“I don’t like country & western, I don’t like rock music… I don’t like rockabilly! I don’t like much really do I? But what I do like, I love passionately!!”: CHRIS LOWE
After a trilogy of EPs ‘y?’, ‘</3’ and ‘it feels like thunder’, Anglo-French singer-songwriter Julia-Sophie Walker releases her debut album ‘forgive too slow’.
It’s been a long artistic journey for her having almost attained mainstream major label success as a member of rock band LITTLE FISH. But when that collapsed and an attempted reconfiguration as the more cerebral CANDY SAYS stalled, Julia-Sophie became disillusioned with the draining roller coaster of the music industry. Retreating into an independent DIY environment, to create music for the sake of making music, ‘forgive too slow’ is a deeply personal reflection on past relationships.
With her anguished vocals, these gently emotive songs combine traditional composition and experimental sound synthesis. The trip starts at ‘2am’ but as subtle beats stutter, ‘i was only’ heads into a haunting self-appraisal of life and longing, given extra poignancy by the addition of Gallic prose. Also an intense number, ‘lose my mind’ has these buzzy rumbles and skippy rhythms that illustrates its title.
A marvellous avant pop set piece, ‘numb’ is a striking statement with mantric rumbles before a frantic gallop takes hold where sung and spoken passages alternate with a fractured intensity. ‘falling’ to a minimal backdrop and eerily forlorn, this all recalls Emika as the train gathers pace, while ‘comfort you’ has contrasting moods with frantic beats and heavy drones sitting next to parts that are almost acapella.
‘just us’ is smothered in the otherworldliness of GOLDFRAPP’s ‘Felt Mountain’ and is even shoegazey in places, but comparative relief comes with ‘wishful thinking’ which is more like a catchy electronic pop song.
As she wants things to be ‘better’, there are signs of resignation as the beats get harder. Closing with the emotive longing of ‘telephone’, overtones of I AM SNOW ANGEL are captured on this rich ballad where gentle glassy texturing ably illustrate her fragility.
While this record is sad and despondent in the way that the late Françoise Hardy always seemed, Julia-Sophie does have hope on the horizon in her style of absorbing avant pop. One moment these songs can be ambient, then rhythmically skippy, then airy pop while sung in English and then spoken in French, each presents its own world weary character connected by Julia-Sophie’s fraught narrative.
Julie-Sophie said in an interview with ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK: “Finishing and releasing ‘forgive too slow’ feels quite exposing. This album delves deeper into the complexities of relationships than anything I’ve done before, exploring themes of self-destruction, tenderness, love, and emotional struggles.”
This is what happens when people ‘forgive too slow’ and become trapped in their past, but does Julia-Sophie solve her woes? Maybe not yet and while she remains embroiled in pain, catharsis comes in this musical life laundry. Swathed in an intriguing electronic sound, her understated fulfilment combines emotional unease with an airy beauty for some satisfying thoughtful listening.
‘Dream Machines: Electronic Music in Britain from Doctor Who to Acid House’ is a fascinating book tracing several decades of British electronic music.
Written by Matthew Collin whose previous books have included ‘Altered State: The Story of Ecstasy Culture and Acid House’, ‘Rave On: Global Adventures in Electronic Dance Music’ and ‘Pop Grenade: From Public Enemy to Pussy Riot – Dispatches from Musical Frontlines’, the content in ‘Dream Machines’ covers early avant-garde experiments, psychedelia, space rock, art rock, reggae, synthpop, electro, sampling, Hi-NRG, house and techno across 400+ pages. As well as technological advances in music making, the cultural and socio-political shifts that changed attitudes and gave tools to outsiders for self-expression are discussed.
Among the many who have been interviewed about this formative period are Gary Numan, John Foxx, Dave Ball, Stephen Morris, Martyn Ware, Chris Carter, Cosey Fanni Tutti, Steve Hillage, Miquette Giraudy, Stephen Mallinder, Ian Levine, Gerald Simpson, Mark Moore, Dennis Bovell, Don Letts, Adrian Sherwood and the late Keith LeBlanc.
Matthew Collin spoke to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK about the research and writing behind ‘Dream Machines: Electronic Music in Britain from Doctor Who to Acid House’.
What drew you towards a love of electronic sounds?
When I was growing up, you could hear all sorts of records on the radio and in the pop charts that used electronics in different ways – KRAFTWERK’s ‘Autobahn’, ‘Popcorn’ by HOT BUTTER, CHICORY TIP’s ‘Son of My Father’ with its gnarly Moog riff. But as a child, I didn’t really identify any of this stuff as ‘electronic music’ as such. You would actually have some quite strange music in the pop charts back in the 1970s, like Rupie Edwards’ bonkers dub track ‘Ire Feelings (Skanga)’. Then there was Bowie, Roxy, Donna Summer’s disco hits with Giorgio Moroder – amazing records, all futuristic in different ways.
This adventurous music that seemed to gaze into the future always excited me – records made by charismatic nonconformists, flamboyant idealists and crazy dreamers; the kind of people I found fascinating. That’s why I also loved that arty DIY postpunk period when people were making mad noises with tape loops, Wasp synths, echo units and drum machines put through fuzzboxes, as well as the raw, early electro-pop; all those releases on independent labels like Rough Trade, Factory, Mute, Fast Product and Industrial Records. Then as the 1980s progressed you got hip-hop and electronic dance music in all its thrilling varieties, which seemed to take this adventurous spirit forwards.
Photo by Nia Gvatua
There are a lot of electronic and dance music books already, so what makes ‘Dream Machines’ different in concept?
‘Dream Machines’ is a celebration of the early pioneers of electronic music in the UK, tracking the story back to the period after World War II when people who dreamed of a new kind of music first got access to tape recorders to turn their dreams into reality. The book follows the music’s trajectory through the sixties, when weird sounds were pumped into the nation’s living rooms by THE BBC RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP, the sonic experiments of adventurous pop musicians like THE BEATLES, through the psychedelic era and into the seventies and eighties with the emergence of dub, electro, hip-hop and then house and techno.
What’s different about the book is that as well as examining how new technology affected the music that was being made, it locates the music’s development within the massive social changes that were happening in Britain during those decades – post-war optimism, the rise of sixties bohemia and liberation movements fighting for equal rights and against discrimination, the Windrush generation’s huge influence on British musical culture, the political turbulence of the seventies and eighties. All these social changes influenced the people who made this music and were reflected in the sounds that they made.
How important was THE BBC RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP in this story?
Massively important. THE BBC RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP introduced so many people in Britain to electronic music, not only through soundtracks for science-fiction TV series like ‘Doctor Who’, but also via the musique concrète sounds that the Workshop’s composers created for BBC Schools Radio broadcasts. Kids would be listening to an educational programme and hearing these amazing otherworldly noises blasting out. A lot of people reckon this is why the UK became such a leader in electro-pop in the eighties, because all these schoolchildren grew up on THE RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP’s electronic sounds.
The Workshop also set a kind of template for electronic music-making in Britain, with its do-it-yourself, make-do-and-mend approach, using whatever equipment was at hand to create new sounds, customising and retooling technology to suit the needs of the moment, mutating and manipulating sonics. DIY futurism, in other words. This spirit endured all the way into the electronic dance music era.
What about the period which you maybe had less knowledge of but most enjoyed writing about from the research and interviews you conducted?
I wasn’t a massive fan of seventies hippie bands like GONG and HAWKWIND before I wrote the book, but I have huge admiration for them now. They were truly out there, combining cosmic electronics with psychedelic rock, experimenting with improvisation and tranced-out repetitive beats. It was a creative counterpart to the fantastic music that Krautrock bands like CAN, FAUST and AMON DÜÜL II were making in Germany around the same time.
Synth Britannia put the pop into synth, is this a movement that you look on fondly, is it finally getting the cultural recognition it deserves?
Culturally, this was a very interesting moment, and not just for the music. People like Phil Oakey, Marc Almond and Annie Lennox were playing with ideas of sartorial genderfluidity, different ways of expressing sexuality, transgressing societal norms. FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD were jubilantly celebrating gay sex, while Imagination were presenting an “alternative masculinity with feminine attributes”, as the writer Marcus Barnes has put it, challenging preconceptions about how a Black British group should look and act. The greatest hits of the synth-pop eighties are now replayed on a seemingly perpetual loop on nostalgia radio as depoliticised and dehistoricised entertainment, but this was a much more culturally progressive period than it is sometimes depicted.
You discuss dub reggae in the book and John Foxx mentions how witnessing Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry at work influenced the sound of ‘Metamatic’, it’s interesting how all these dots join…
It’s impossible to understate how important dub has been to the development of electronic music, particularly its ideas about the creative use of space and echo. It was also a crucial factor in the musical make-up of genres like jungle, drum and bass, trip-hop, dubstep and most subsequent British-made electronic dance music, as well as making a major impact on rock and pop. “Dub changed the way people listen to music and it changed the way people conceive music and compose music”, as the veteran reggae producer Dennis Bovell told me. The Jamaican influence, brought to Britain by the Windrush generation, is something that has given electronic music in the UK its unique flavour and made it different from music created in mainland Europe or the United States.
By the way, Dennis Bovell tells an amusing story about how ‘Silly Games’, the hit he produced for Janet Kay, was recorded in the same studio around the same time as Gary Numan’s ‘Are Friends Electric?’ and used exactly the same synthesizer as Numan’s song. Bovell was actually a big prog rock fan, he even used to play in a band called STONEHENGE, which is why he said he wanted to use synths in reggae.
The story of how Ian Levine only turned to electronics to make ‘So Many Men, So Little Time’ by Miguel Brown due to budget limitations was a key turning point?
British Hi-NRG producer Ian Levine wanted to make lavish disco records using funky musicians and string sections, but because he couldn’t afford it anymore, he had to use drum machines and synths. It’s that DIY ethos again: adapting and mutating sounds because you have no alternative, and creating something new in the process. This is another thread that runs through ‘Dream Machines’, and through British electronic music in general – using the power of the imagination to overcome limitations.
You gave Stock Aitken & Waterman quite a bit of airtime when most books about electronic music wouldn’t be touching them with a barge pole?
I think there’s an interesting story there, however you rate Stock Aitken & Waterman’s records aesthetically. In the book, I write about the cultural importance of Hi-NRG, which was massive in underground gay clubs across the UK in the mid-eighties. Stock Aitken & Waterman then turned this gay electronic disco sound into straight electronic pop, and sold millions of records doing it.
They also brought textures from early Chicago house records into their music. It shows yet again how sounds from underground gay clubs and cutting-edge Black American dance music are readapted into white British pop, often very quickly, and then become part of the collective musical vocabulary.
Acid house took electronic music away from songs, so as an enthusiastic historian of it, where do you think the emotional resonance comes from it or is it more from memory association i.e. the collective experience and the chemical escapism?
I do think that the Ecstasy boom in the late eighties had an impact on the way British electronic music was made, because clubbers on E wanted more repetitive, trancelike grooves with weirder sonic effects, and as a result, producers were making tracks that became longer, freakier and more rhythmically intense. The original Chicago house music was an electronically-rendered, low-budget version of disco, and as time went on, it became increasingly deconstructed. The increasing popularity of E across the UK meant that there was a growing audience for these powerfully hypnotic records, and this in turn meant that more house and techno tracks were needed to meet this demand, which nurtured a rapidly-growing creative community of UK producers.
To you, was acid house like the spirit of THE RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP with a dance beat?
Acid house offered a kind of unique weirdness that attracted a lot of people in the UK; people who liked strange sounds with a heavy beat. Many of them had undoubtedly grown up hearing THE RADIOPHONIC WORKSHOP’s soundtracks for TV and radio. In the book, Haçienda club DJ Jon Dasilva memorably describes acid house as ‘house music’s experimental wing’. When acid house exploded, you had musicians coming into the scene who had previously been involved with postpunk, indie and industrial music, and who brought in new ideas.
You also had people getting involved in acid house who had been involved in previous forms of psychedelic music and were excited by the idea of a technologically-enhanced psychedelia. Steve Hillage and Miquette Giraudy, former members of cosmic jazz-rock band GONG who became techno duo SYSTEM 7, are classic examples of this. As Hillage put it when I interviewed him: “We were very attracted to acid house because of the acid in it.”
You interviewed quite a few people for the book, from those who perhaps you not had spoken to much before, what were the biggest revelations for you, stuff that you were not aware of or had only heard on hearsay but now confirmed?
I loved the way that disparate musical ideas, scenes and people connect across history. One example is the historical link between the 1970s hippie festival by the ancient monument at Stonehenge and the 21st century techno temple Berghain. Britain’s first all-electronic band, a now-obscure group called ZORCH, played live at the Stonehenge festival back in 1974, where they met Tony Andrews, an expert in sound system technology. After working as ZORCH’s sound system man, Andrews went on to set up Turbosound, the company that provided the sound systems for the early acid house raves, and then he co-founded Funktion 1, which now provides top-of-the-range sound rigs for techno clubs like Berghain. So there’s this chain of creative links stretching for five decades through British electronic music history.
I also loved the way that sounds and styles are exchanged across countries and continents, adapting and mutating in the process. One example in the book is a UK-based producer called Tony Williams, a radio DJ in London who wanted to make a funky hip-hop groove that sounded a bit like THE SUGARHILL GANG’s ‘Rappers Delight’, which had just been a hit. But he booked reggae musicians to play it, and the sessions were mixed by a UK dub engineer, so the track, ‘Love Money’ by TW FUNK MASTERS, turned out like a kind of Caribbean-inflected disco-dub. Williams’ record then influenced New York producers and DJs like François Kevorkian and Larry Levan, who emulated Williams’ style for records that defined the sound of the Paradise Garage, the iconic NY underground club. So you had all these musical ideas from the US, Jamaica and the UK crossing back and forth across the world to create something fresh.
Did you get everyone you wanted to interview for the book? Were there any notable people who declined that you can talk about?
Paul McCartney would have been a fascinating interview. He’s often seen as the straightest of THE BEATLES, but he played a very important role in bringing ideas from the avant-garde into pop music. For a period in the mid-sixties when the countercultural ‘underground’ was emerging, McCartney became a cultural explorer on the bohemian fringes of Swinging London, going to see avant-garde concerts and exhibitions. He talked a lot in interviews at that time about discovering electronic music and musique concrète, and people took notice of what he was saying because he was a member of the most famous pop group in the world.
Then once THE BEATLES and their producer George Martin started experimenting with tape loops, sound manipulation and electronics, these techniques started to become assimilated into pop’s sonic universe. THE BEATLES’ ‘Tomorrow Never Knows’ was a landmark in futurist pop, and it set many other musicians on the path of sonic exploration. At the time, it must have sounded like it had been beamed in from another dimension.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its sincerest thanks to Matthew Collin
Describing himself as a “Global travelling explorer and flaneur electronique”, independent electronic musician Robin Rimbaud has been releasing music as SCANNER since 1993. His moniker came as a result of using police scanner devices that he had purchased from a friend in a hunt saboteur group in his live performances and recordings.
Born in London, Rimbaud immersed himself in avant garde literature, cinema and music from a young age, discovering the works of John Cage and Brian Eno via his piano teacher. He began composing in 1982 and has since been active in sonic art, live performance, event curation, installations, dance production scores, video, recording and academia.
An early adopter of the internet, Rimbaud’s experimental approach has seen him collaborate with the likes of Bryan Ferry, Michael Nyman and Laurie Anderson. His back catalogue is vast, taking in ambient, contemporary classical, art pop, jazz, glitch, IDM, soundtrack and experimental fields. 1997 saw SCANNER featured in the prestigious ITV arts magazine series ‘The South Bank Show’.
With no less than three albums ‘Alchemeia’, ‘The Phenol Tapes’ and ‘The Berklee Sessions’ already released in 2024, ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK had the pleasure of chatting to Robin Rimbaud about those and other aspects of his decades long role as a creative catalyst…
How did you become interested in electronic music?
Technology always appealed to me. I was playing with tape recorders from a very early age and borrowed synths from older boys at school as I couldn’t afford such things. The world of electronic music on record appealed to me in such a magical way, but, of course, I’m of a generation from the 60ds and 70s that heard strange and eclectic electronic music on TV shows as the soundtracks, for science programmes and so on, so it was always there, ever present.
What was your first synth and do you have a favourite one?
I couldn’t afford one for many years, so my first ‘serious’ synth was a Yamaha SY22 in 1990 which can be heard all over my records at the time. Just checking the details online regarding this synth, it’s reported that it was used by “MOBY, SKINNY PUPPY and SCANNER”. Well, that made me smile.
Now a few years later, I have significantly more synths and many favourites. One I have loved since I first bought it is the Kilpatrick Phenol Synth, such that when I travelled to Captiva in Florida in 2017, it was the only instrument that I took with me. More on that in a moment. Minimalism at its best 😀
Photo by Sophia Stefelle
You’ve released three albums in 2024 so far but have always been prolific, are you able to summarise your ethos and energy?
If I had a simple answer, I suppose I’d be setting up a course for others to attend to learn, but it’s mostly about discipline. Personally, I feel that I could do so much more, that I’m quite lazy, but others have commented on this aspect of my output. I wake up early each day, between 05.30 – 06.00, eat breakfast, take a walk, then begin work early, and work all day until around 17.30. I never work in the evenings or at the weekends.
Perhaps it also helps that I’ve never drunk alcohol, tea or coffee, never smoked, or taken drugs. You’d be amazed how many hours are extinguished for some people because of such addictions.
I’m able to get a lot done before the day really kicks in a sense. I also work efficiently. I have various systematic approaches to ways of work and remain true to them and so am able to achieve a fair deal in a short space of time.
‘Alchemeia’ pays tribute to electronic library music of the 60s and 70s, did you set yourself briefs for each composition or was it much freer than that?
The ‘Alchemeia’ concept began as an idea of exploring this music that I had heard in my sonic landscape as I grew up and somehow paying tribute to it, in the most respectful way. I kept in mind the composers whose work I admired as I began creating in the studio, people such as Tod Dockstader, Ron Geesin and Delia Derbyshire.
I also did my utmost to use dusty old, often unreliable and noisy, analogue gear to create the music too, in a sense remaining true to the source of the inspiration. Whilst must of this music was heard on TV and not the key focus, I wanted the background to become the foreground here. It led to a most playful and fun album that hopefully remains affectionately nodding towards its influences.
‘The Phenol Tapes’ has longer progressive pieces and was recorded on one synth and one guitar pedal in a wooden hut in Florida, how do restrictions alter your creative mindset?
Well, conscious that I was going to be living on an island for 6 weeks, at the invitation of the Robert Rauschenberg Foundation, and with little access to technology I had to make certain key decisions, especially given the size of equipment to take with me. I’ve always been rather a minimalist in terms of what I pack to travel so this was a great challenge.
Less can most definitely be more though. I would sit in this former fisherman’s hut in the heart of the landscape every single day and explore different aspects of the instrument. It was a very mediative and rewarding experience, especially sharing it with such wildlife as woodpeckers, osprey and woodpeckers, some of who guest on the album, almost unintentionally!
Such restrictions are invaluable though, where you are forced to rethink processes and possibilities and certainly not relying on software and plugins to embellish everything! This entire experience ended up simply being called ‘The Phenol Tapes’, after the name of the very technology I was using at the time.
‘The Berklee Sessions’ takes a wild excursion into jazz, how did this come about?
I was actually working at MIT in Boston at the time on an Artist Residency, and my friend Neil Leonard teaches at Berklee College of Music, and set up this session one day in the studio there. He kindly invited other sympathetic players, we set up and simply played. Honestly, just as simple as that.
The joy of working with such professionals as this is that much of their lives have been spent working against the clock in sessions with Frank Zappa, John Cale and others, so they worked as efficiently as me which was so rewarding. Somehow, we recorded about 75 mins of music in our short day, but it then took me TEN years to work my way through the most complicated sessions!
When I listen to ‘The Berklee Sessions’ now, I hear a combination of electronic sounds united with more psychedelic rock than jazz, so it’s a hard one to label. Reviews have compared it to Tortoise, Miles Davis or The Necks, which is so very flattering.
Photo by IW Photographic
You have collaborated on numerous occasions; how does your process change in these instances?
I honestly don’t overthink it. It very much depends on the circumstances. I’ve now worked on around 70 dance productions, so fully appreciate how the process develops with choreographers, whilst working with an architect is often accepting that it might well take at least five years for the project to come to fruition!
Working with other musicians is usually the simplest. I love the ability to exchange ideas in the creative process. I enjoy taking risks too, so working in circumstances I’m not necessarily familiar or comfortable with is very rewarding. For example, I recently ran a week of workshops with dancers and actors in Ravenna Italy, exploring the use of the voice in composition and performance. I was utterly out of my depth, but it was an extraordinarily rewarding experience for everyone!
Is another song based album like ‘Scanni’ which you did with Anni Hogan and various guests a possibility in the future?
Actually, it’s quite possible that the next release on my label Alltagsmusik will be an album with a female singer from Sheffield in the UK, Sally Doherty, which is more like torch songs meets PORTISHEAD and THE BEATLES. I’ve always loved songs but rarely written any. Almost my entire back catalogue is instrumental.
Having said that, I recorded cover songs for my late mum in 2020 for a tribute EP ‘Jayemme’ and then sang for the first (and possibly last) time the same year in a collaboration with my friend, the celebrated Dutch composer Michel Banabila on ‘The Spaces You Hold’. I only wish I were brave enough to sing in front of the public, but that’s unlikely to ever happen, I think.
Aside from these new 2024 releases, which work is your favourite from your back catalogue?
I’ve rarely ever listened to any of my own music. I move on from each release and project, but your question has gotten me thinking. I’m especially proud of the album ‘Fibolae’ (2017), which was recorded after losing my entire family. It’s an angry, passionate and intense recording.
I also still enjoy ‘Lauwarm Instrumentals’ (1999), which is a mix of melancholic melodies with intensely rhythmic pieces.
You issued your first self-titled album in 1993, electronic music has developed and is everywhere now, how do you view these recent sub-genres that have sprung up like hauntology and synthwave?
I’m never quite sure how genres help music listeners at times, as they began more as a way for record shops and magazines to organise their record racks. I don’t know of anyone who labels their own record collections in that way! But I’ve loved seeing how expansive the electronic music scene has become, embracing so many possibilities. I’m still as inspired by new music as I ever was!
Music distribution has also altered considerably since 1993, do followers of your work have a preferred format? How has it worked for you?
It’s clear that many collectors love vinyl, often buying copies that remain sealed, which is a quirky idea, but so be it. I’ve issued music on all formats and unfortunately the sheer extortionate costs of producing vinyl, the waiting time to receive them, and the postage to send them out, has meant that for the time-being, I’m focusing on CDs and digital.
A lot of my supporters enjoy digital music, and I even set up a Fan Club at Bandcamp to offer exclusive works to those who want them. At present there are about 50 works that can’t otherwise be heard anywhere else.
Where do you stand on the “sound quality” argument of vinyl vs CD vs MP3 vs lossless vs cassette vs streaming?
I’ve never used any streaming services for music, but to be honest I’m happy just to hear music. Like countless others I’ve enjoyed watching YouTube videos on a phone in mono, and hearing bootleg tapes of bands I love recorded as if hiding inside a cardboard box. As long as I have access to music in all formats, then I’m happy. I grew up listening to cassette tapes so anything was an improvement on that 🙂
Photo by Sophia Stefelle
As an independent artist, how have you adapted to social media? Is it a necessary evil, do you wholly embrace it or does it take up too much time, especially this algorithmic preference for video reels?
Well, I’ve been sending out a newsletter every month, on the first day of every month, since 1996, so that’s 28 years of socially engaging with supporters. I have been embracing the possibility of connecting with others for all this time, so actively use social networks for good. My Instagram account is largely focused on sharing my enthusiasm for new music, visual art and books. I avoid being drawn into the politics of life and other diversive subjects.
Social media is always looking to reinvent itself in endless possible ways, so a particular emphasis at this very moment on one aspect will presumably change again in the near future. I remain positive that these tools can be used for positive experiences!
What about AI, have you investigated this for use as a tool in your music?
I was a beta tester for one company exploring musical possibilities and in a year of experiments failed to find anything of interest for my own purposes, but I’m well aware of other companies who have trained their systems to produce the most extraordinary, largely unoriginal music.
Then again, I’ve already been using it with certain mastering software such as iZotope and in Logic Pro, and believe that it can offer us something very positive, but right now we are in the moment of discovery which is always unsettling and newsworthy, if only for the negative aspects.
What is next for you?
I have many commitments for 2024-25. I have at least 3 more albums to come out this year, plus a beautiful special art edition on vinyl which features scores for British artist and designer Ben Kelly. This can currently be seen in the Reverb show at 180 Strand in London.
I have a huge multimedia installation opening at Pompidou Centre in Paris on 3 December which will run until the close of the museum in March 2025, then tour the world for some years. It’s a work I made with the late Mike Kelley, an incredible American artist.
I also have two books that I need to return to and prepare for publication. And, in between, productions, soundtrack work and catching up with projects that never seem to be finished!
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Robin Rimbaud
‘Alchemeia’, ‘The Phenol Tapes’ and ‘The Berklee Sessions’, along with the SCANNER back catalogue is available digitally direct from https://scanner.bandcamp.com
Just as affordable synths from Japan from the likes of Korg and Roland fuelled the rise of Synth Britannia, it was affordable samplers manufactured by Akai fed the rave revolution…
UTAH SAINTS were pioneers of what came to be known as stadium house, a term coined by Bill Drummond of THE KLF; comprising of Jez Willis and Tim Garbutt, the pair become known for their melting pot of influences. Elements of synth, art pop, funk, disco, soul, R’n’B, rock, metal, techno, breakbeat and hip hop were sampled, remixed, edited and processed to produce their own distinctive brand of electronic dance music which euphorically sat in between the underground and the mainstream.
Their 1993 debut self-titled album spawned the hits What Can You Do for Me’, ‘Something Good’, ‘Believe in Me’ and ‘I Want You’, leading to them to open for U2 on the stadium leg of their ‘Zoo TV’ tour. Their self-referencing catchphrase “UTAH SAINTS-U-U-U-UTAH SAINTS!” became ubiquitous, so much so that in an indicator of their profile at the time, alternative comedy pairing Baddiel & Newman sent up the duo in an ‘MTV Unplugged‘ sketch.
Work towards the follow-up to their Top10 debut long player took a number of years and ‘Two’ did not emerge until 2000. But in the interim, the remix commissions came flooding in and included THE HUMAN LEAGUE, SIMPLE MINDS, JAMES, BLONDIE, HAWKWIND and THE OSMONDS alongside soundtracks for computer video games.
While there has not been a new album since, UTAH SAINTS have kept busy with standalone digital singles, more remixes, worldwide DJ appearances, curating festival stages and promoting their own events, often showcasing new talent. Their best known track ‘Something Good’ continues to have a life of its own and became a hit again as a 2008 remix featuring new vocals by Davina Perera. More recently, their ‘Two’ opener Sun’ was used on the end credits of the 2022 Steve Buscemi film drama ‘The Listener’.
With a busy 2024 schedule and plans to release new music, UTAH SAINTS collectively answered questions put to them by ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK about their past, present and future…
How did UTAH SAINTS begin? Was it scene or tech related, or both?
Jez Utah was in electronic based bands MDMA, CASSANDRA COMPLEX and a surf band – SURFIN DAVE & THE ABSENT LEGENDS. He came to UTAH SAINTS heavily influenced by European electronic music such as FRONT 242 and THE YOUNG GODS, and Metal – MOTÖRHEAD, AC/DC and THIN LIZZY. He was also DJ-ing 70s disco and funk, having started as a mobile function DJ when he was 14.
Tim Utah was heavily influenced by 80s hip hop and late 80s/early 90s house. He was a DMC Turntablist semi-finalist when he was 17. The mutual crossover was PUBLIC ENEMY and THE KLF. When rave took off, it combined all of our musical interests, and was DIY – this ticked all the boxes for us, so off we went.
Martyn Ware has recalled he had a choice of buying a synth or learning to drive back… the availability and affordability of Akai samplers and Atari computers must have helped but did you have any similar choice dilemmas?
Yes, it was a car or a sampler.
One of the statements on the first album was “TAKE CONTROL OF THE MACHINE NOW!”, was it important for UTAH SAINTS to have a manifesto of sorts, even if was just for yourselves?
Yes, very important – we were just saying get on the tech now, or be left behind. A very similar message applies now, 30 years later.
You were quite bold and went for quite high profile vocalists to sample from the off, how was the process of clearing them? Was it more straightforward back then or did it open up a can of worms?
Like now, it varied as everyone has a different opinion on sampling. Kate Bush was obviously a very sensitive negotiation that we stayed out of as we were new and she is such an amazing icon.
Whether it was Annie Lennox, Gwen Guthrie, Kate Bush or Phil Oakey, while the voices were recognisable on UTAH SAINTS’ tracks, the manipulation of these created your own glossolalia, would you have been doing the sampler equivalent of “jamming” to create these?
Yes, we would sample anything and everything music-wise, and layer and loop to see what worked – took a lot of influence from the Shocklee brothers’ approach.
‘Believe In Me’ was quite mad as you had Sylvester sparring off Phil Oakey next to CROWN HEIGHTS AFFAIR, did this reflect the broad musical church of UTAH SAINTS?
Yes, as broad as we can get – it’s all sonically useful, and some of the most interesting sounds come from combinations that might not be too obvious.
After all the art pop, synth, soul and disco, ‘I Want You’ used samples of heavy rock band SLAYER, where did that idea spring from?
Jamming with the sampler. One thing that held us back a bit was trying to reinvent our sound track-by-track as opposed to album-by-album, which is what we probably should have done. Also that’s where THE YOUNG GODS’ influence arrived.
You covered SIMPLE MINDS ‘New Gold Dream’ but this appeared to coincide with U.S.U.R.A. ‘Open Your Mind’ which sampled it. Did you ever think about conceiving a sample based track before settling on doing a cover version?
No, we wanted to cover one of the biggest live tracks we could think of at the time – that was a stadium track, and helped us when we played live, especially when we opened for U2 in actual stadiums. The U.S.U.R.A. track is great, really nice sampling.
How did you feel when UTAH SAINTS were later invited to remix ‘I Travel’ by SIMPLE MINDS in 1998?
Honoured, excited and a bit intimidated – early SIMPLE MINDS was so groundbreaking, such a great band.
There was a remix of ‘Crazy Horses’ by THE OSMONDS in 1996 which was quite appropriate…
Yes, that’s why we did it, they also paid us with an Akai 3200, so that we could fully sample what we needed for that remix.
Your remix portfolio is wide and has included BLONDIE, THE WEDDING PRESENT and GIRLS ALOUD, do you have a favourite out of all the ones you’ve done?
Tricky, but probably ‘Little Bird’ by Annie Lennox.
Photo by Martyn Goodacre
Did you feel any affinity with other British dance acts of the period like THE KLF, LEFTFIELD, THE PRODIGY, ORBITAL, UNDERWORLD and THE CHEMICAL BROTHERS? Was it a bit brothers in arms or had there been some rivalry?
Love all of them, total privilege to be associated with those names. No rivalry from us, just awe, respect and an ambition to be as good as them.
It took 7-8 years to follow-up the debut album but then this wasn’t unusual among dance-based acts as LEFTFIELD, THE PRODIGY and STEREO MCs proved, but were you worried about becoming too formulaic? Was there an existential crisis?
Yes, we were pulling ourselves in all directions, and the business wanted us to be NINE INCH NAILS for the USA and THE KLF for the UK. We are The Utahs, and we did our own heads in a bit, trying to work out what that meant.
On top of that we heard ‘Born Slippy’ about a year before it came out, and THE PRODIGY released ‘Jilted Generation’. Both those things happened when we were making the second album, and made us re-assess what we were doing yet again.
The ‘Two’ album featured a diverse cast including Michael Stipe, Christie Hynde, Edwin Starr, Chuck D, Joyce Sims and Iggy Pop while there were also samples of METALLICA and AVERAGE WHITE BAND, what are your memories of putting this body of work together? Was there a sense of freedom, relief and adventure after the shelved second record?
Yes, we had nothing to prove at that point, so we spent two years, all day every day making that album, it’s a very complex album, but probably only us who see it that way. Amazed to get all the samples cleared, again a great honour.
‘Power To The Beats’ featuring Chuck D from PUBLIC ENEMY was quite different to what had gone before on the debut record? It reminds me a bit of ‘Afrika Shox’ by LEFTFIELD and Afrika Bambaataa, but was the influence much deeper rooted in the pioneering era of rap and hip-hop.
The idea was to make a track that had both those parties on. At the time there was a big debate in the USA about Napster allowing free downloads of music. There was a debate in The Senate and both Chuck D and METALLICA testified there. It was reported as them being on different sides of the argument – Chuck pro-Napster, METALLICA anti. That wasn’t the case at all, they both wanted similar things. We thought it would be interesting to make a track with both of them sampled. It worked, but no-one got the Napster reference…
You are still touring extensively, what can people expect from a UTAH SAINTS show today?
Essentially heads down DJ-ing with effects, playing as much exciting music as we can pack in – ours, other peoples, and special edits of known tracks…
Are there any proudest moments or achievements UTAH SAINTS?
That we were part of the emergence of rave music – as well as Utah music, we have promoted over 1500 events, booking hundreds of electronic DJs and acts. After that, we’re just happy that we still feel relevant to the electronic music scene – a lot of current dance music is emulating the earlier sounds.
What is next for UTAH SAINTS? Will there ever be a new album, does the long playing format have a place any more in the modern music environment?
We’re planning that, if we can get out of our own way and trust our own judgement when it comes to our own music, then yes, there will be new music – we currently have over 25 tracks on the go. The album concept is interesting – if we finish maybe 10 tracks in a similar timeframe, which is the aim, then we will release an album. The Long Player does have a place, just perhaps not the driving force it once was…
Will AI play a part in the future of UTAH SAINTS, in music making, DJ-ing or live presentations? Have you used it for anything yet?
It’s a tool, but until bio-computers arrive that can grow their own brains, AI in the context of creativity is re-active at the moment, not pro-active. What the world really needs is new ideas, not rehashed old ones, and that is probably a few years off with AI.
It’s an exciting time though!
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to UTAH SAINTS
The ‘Utah Saints’ and ‘Two’ albums are still available in the usual formats
UTAH SAINTS 2024 DJ dates include:
Middlesbrough Save The Rave (13 July), Maidstone Revival In The Park (14 July), Bromyard Noz Stock (19 July), Clitheroe Beatherder (20 July), Halifax Piece Hall (27 July), Nantwich Deva Fest (9 August), Escot Park Beautiful Days (17 August), Silloth Solfest (22 August), Morbeth Party In The Park (25 August), London 100 Club (14 September), Folkestone Quarterhouse (21 September), Minehead Shiiine On Weekender (16 November), Birmingham Hare & Hounds (13 December)
Unlike “New Romantic”, “New Pop” was a term that never truly stuck… it was coined by Paul Morley, then a polarising writer for NME. It was used to describe forward thinking music that, while rooted in post-punk, was accessible and looked to overthrow rockist conventions by unashamedly blending a variety of styles.
The acts who found themselves considered as part of this movement included THE CURE, SIMPLE MINDS, OMD, JAPAN, CHINA CRISIS, THE HUMAN LEAGUE, SOFT CELL, HEAVEN 17, EURYTHMICS, TEARS FOR FEARS, A FLOCK OF SEAGULLS, FUN BOY THREE, SCRITTI POLITTI, THE STYLE COUNCIL, ALTERED IMAGES, DEXY’S MIDNIGHT RUNNERS, MONSOON, THE TEARDROP EXPLODES, ABC, HAIRCUT 100, THE PALE FOUNTAINS, EYELESS IN GAZA, BLUE RONDO A LA TURK, RIP RIG & PANIC, JOBOXERS, THE HIGSONS and even THE STRANGLERS.
This was a broad church that many would not have granted a common association but that was the point. Even in what appeared to be traditional band formats, new technology meant synths emulated brass sections or funk basslines while drum machines took the place of conventional sticksmen and it could all be recorded in a DIY fashion with portastudios and the like.
New Pop was about the aspirations of those disenchanted with the Winter of Discontent and then the Conservative government under Margaret Thatcher to pick up musical instruments without any formal training. The intention was to be heard, whether in the clubs, on the radio or in the charts. The ever dependable Cherry Red present ‘Heaven Sent – The Rise Of New Pop 1979-1983’, a 4CD collection compiled by the team who curated the ‘Musik Music Musique’ sets.
Of the artists that ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK would appreciate, there are fine choices that are off the beaten track away from obvious hits; THE HUMAN LEAGUE are represented by the excellent ‘Boys & Girls’ which was the first single after the departure of Martyn Ware and Ian Craig Marsh while the latter pair’s HEAVEN 17 contribute the locomotive snap of ‘I’m Your Money’. OMD have ‘Red Frame / White Light’, the lightweight ditty about the 632 3003 phonebox which served as their office in their formative years.
But synthpop was taken to the next level with the gritty social commentary of ‘Bedsitter’ proving that SOFT CELL were more than a one hit wonders and could chart with self-written material. A sign of how angst ridden youngsters were expressing their existential and political concerns to music came with fine debut offerings respectively from TEARS FOR FEARS and CHINA CRISIS but while ‘Suffer The Children’ and ‘African & White’ were not Top40 hits, they were hints of their mainstream success to come.
A year before they subverted the singles chart with ‘Party Fears Two’, ASSOCIATES were peddling the more challenging ‘Q Quarters’ while on THE CURE lightened up with ‘Let’s Go To Bed’ in the first of their fantasy singles trilogy that would later include ‘The Walk’ and ‘The Love Cats’. And prior to DEAD OR ALIVE becoming a HI-NRG disco act, they were a brooding goth band with ‘The Stranger’ in its original Black Eyes Records incarnation as wonderful evidence of that.
Maturer acts who made an impression during this period like M, THE BUGGLES and NEW MUSIK are all present and correct with their biggest hits while one song that deserved to be a hit was the bizarre but brilliant techno-swing of ‘An Englishman In New York’ from 10CC refugees Kevin Godley and Lol Creme.
Capturing two acts in transition, fresh after departing THE TOURISTS, EURYTHMICS get served by their first German influenced single ‘Never Gonna Cry Again’ while the 7 inch single edit of ‘The Art Of Parties’ by JAPAN and its brass-fuelled exploration of more rhythmic territory makes a rare digital appearance.
The epitome of New Pop has often been seen to be ABC with ‘Poison Arrow’ and with the band plus assorted session musicians tracing the pre-programmed guide track helmed by Trevor Horn with live instrumentation, modern production was born where funk, soul and orchestrations could sit alongside the mechanised synthpop that had achieved a wider breakthrough in 1981.
With New Pop, funk was often a constituent and FAD GADGET’s ‘Make Room’ brought that in spades alongside the synth, while COLOURBOX had a cross of electronics, funk and reggae in ‘Shotgun’, although both were perhaps too idiosyncratic to crossover to wider audiences.
There’s also the inclusion of the first Thomas Dolby single ‘Urges’ co-produced by XTC’s Andy Partridge and the boxed set’s title song ‘Heaven Sent’, Paul Haig’s excellent take on SIMPLE MINDS ‘I Travel’ polished for the New York dancefloor by producer Alex Sadkin; to have the former JOSEF K frontman and his song originally written for the band in this position is fitting as Paul Morley had designated Paul Haig“the enigmatic fourth man” in a quartet of New Pop saviours which also included Billy Mackenzie, Jim Kerr and Martin Fry.
The delight in these boxed sets is to rediscover music that has been largely forgotten over time and one is ‘Dance Sucker’, an electro-funk stomper by SET THE TONE; a combo featuring one-time SIMPLE MINDS drummer Kenny Hyslop, it was he who taped the track ‘Too Through’ by BAD GIRLS off Kiss FM in New York that inspired the band to write ‘Promised You A Miracle’; SIMPLE MINDS themselves feature with the underrated ‘Sweat In Bullet’ from 1981.
One nice surprise is THE UNDERTONES’ synth flavoured ‘Beautiful Friend’ where they appear to have actually got THE HUMAN LEAGUE in to advise them while Pauline Murray with THE INVISIBLE GIRLS are delightfully rousing with the Martin Hannett produced ‘Dream Sequence 1’. Another fine inclusion is Edinburgh’s TV21 and their Mike Howlett produced single ‘All Join Hands’ with its combination of sequencers and strings.
By 1983, THE STRANGLERS had shed their more aggressive tendencies with the pretty ‘European Female’ but harking back to those days, Hazel O’Connor’s cover of their ‘Hanging Around’ begins as an enigmatic Casiobeat cover with the ‘Breaking Glass’ star trying to be Grace Jones before morphing into a more routine reinterpretation with synth and sax. And speaking of Grace Jones, her reggae cover of JOY DIVISION’s ‘She’s Lost Control’ has to be heard to be believed.
One hit wonders from THE FLYING LIZARDS, DEPARTMENT S and THE PASSIONS add to the fun but some of the inclusions have not aged well. ‘The House That Jack Built’ by Paul Weller protégée Tracie Young is frankly dreadful while the embarrassing ‘John Wayne Is Big Leggy’ by HAYSI FANTAYZEE only gets a free pass because Kate Garner and Jeremy Healy comically subverted Top Of The Pops by performing this song about anal sex with unambiguous actions to boot!
Not everything on ‘Heaven Sent – The Rise Of New Pop 1979-1983’ will satisfy the majority of listeners but what cannot be denied about most of the inclusions is that they are largely inventive and exciting. It is a period to savour because what then comes after is the bland sophisti-pop and cod soul meanderings of SADE, SIMPLY RED, GO WEST, SWING OUT SISTER, HUE & CRY, CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT, WET WET WET and LIVING IN A BOX with their far more musically conservative (with a small ‘c’) disposition.
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