‘Mirores’ is the excellent debut long player by Welsh synth songstress ANI GLASS and conceived around the idea of movement and progress around her hometown of Cardiff.
With enticing synthpop songs sitting together with more conceptual found sound adventures, it is one woman’s artistic vision celebrating her heritage and home, empowered by the freedom and democracy opened up via electronic music. ANI GLASS released her first EP ‘Ffrwydrad Tawel’ in 2017 having served an apprenticeship under mentors such as OMD’s Andy McCluskey and the late Martin Rushent. She kindly chatted about realising her artistic vision and remaining true to her culture.
Your debut album ‘Mirores’ has been several years in the making, how did you keep focussed and motivated?
It’s been a real labour of love and I’ve really enjoyed the whole process. That’s not to say that it’s been a never-ending journey of joyful motivation; there have been heavy periods of down-time whilst I focussed on other things such as my Masters and PhD, but even during those times I was busy collecting ideas and building a narrative. I’ve always wanted to have created and crafted a strong body of work and so that was all the motivation I needed to make sure that I finished, no matter how long it took.
What were the main differences in approach for you with the album compared with your debut EP ‘Ffrwydrad Tawel’?
The main difference I would say is that my ideas, musicianship and skills have developed since writing and recording the EP and so my approach to making the album was more considered. Essentially, I would just say that I was far more confident in my ability this time around.
You opted to self-produce the album, what were the pros and cons you uncovered along the way?
The only con I can think of was that it probably took far longer than it may have had someone else produced it, but the list of pros is pretty endless to be honest. I learnt the skill of production, I learnt how to fully realise my ideas from start to finish, I felt more ownership over my music and could work at my own pace and it encouraged me to listen to music in a different and more observant way. It also made me realise the amount of work involved and I now fully understand why Martin Rushent took over a year to finish the second PIPETTES album!
What hardware or software synths were you using, have you been tempted by any of those affordable Behringer clones?
I tend to stick to hardware synths, the ones I used on the album include a Juno 106, Waldorf Blofeld, Fender Rhodes and a Korg Minilogue. There maybe one or two software synths but mainly incidental or background stuff and absolutely no Behringer clones!
The album is an observational electronic travelogue with pop songs and conceptual interludes, that appears to be reminiscent of OMD’s ‘Dazzle Ships’ or ‘English Electric’? What were you main pointers influence-wise?
My main sonic influences were Vangelis, Martin Rushent, Giorgio Moroder, Jean-Michel Jarre and Arthur Russell. I do love OMD so I’m quite happy if anything I make resembles their work! The album is a journey – based around a day in the life of a Cardiff girl – and journeys tend to vary in pace, mood and tone and so I made an album that I felt would represent this.
The ‘Mirores’ title song has a very liberating quality about it, what was its genesis?
It was one of the last songs from the album that I wrote, and I certainly began to feel liberated knowing that I had nearly finished it! I wanted the song to capture how moments of doubt and despair can evolve into ones of clarity and realisation.
You play with Euro-disco on ‘Ynys Araul’, do you ultimately still have a pop heart within the messages you are looking to convey?
To me, I find pop music to be the most versatile when it comes to freedom of narrative. I’ve never felt restricted by its more traditional format, this structure allows me to experiment with lyrical themes and ideas. I’m generally quite conceptual and often a little vague when it comes to lyrics which then allows me to discuss almost anything. OMD’s ‘Enola Gay’ is a classic example of how a well-crafted song can be both pop and poignant.
You use sample of Welsh newsreader Huw Edwards within the voice collage on ‘Peirianwaith Perffaith’?
This recording is taken from a news report during the 1997 Welsh devolution referendum results. This momentous event in the social, cultural and political calendar of Wales has played a huge part in the development of Cardiff as a European capital city. What was once the largest exporter of coal in the world, the place where the first million-pound cheque was signed felt like a pretty grey and dreary place during the 80s and 90s.
Despite this, there were a lot of exciting things happening in various pockets around the city and most of all, the people were kind and generous. The city is unrecognisable today, in part due to the devolution process which has weaved its way into the minds and mechanics of Welsh life, and although we have all the problems of other cities – it’s home.
There’s a gospel flavoured interlude called ‘I.B.T’ which appears to sound familiar?
The recording is of my Mum’s choir CÔR COCHION CAERDYDD (Cardiff Reds), who are a socialist street choir. They sing every Saturday in Cardiff city centre to raise money for great causes and have done for the best part of 40 years. The song itself ‘Freedom Is Coming’ is a South African protest song, but this version is called ‘I.B.T’ which reads in Welsh ‘I Beaty’ (To Beaty). Beaty was a choir member and a wonderful woman and friend, and I recorded the choir singing this song at her funeral.
What was the idea behind including both English and Welsh in ‘Agnes’?
The words spoken at the beginning are taken from an interview done with the artist Agnes Martin as part of a documentary and the Welsh passages that follow depict my feelings about her work (basically, I love her). Her work stops you from thinking or worrying about things, it’s very calming and hugely inspiring – most certainly one of my greatest inspirations.
Do you have any personal favourite tracks on the album, or is it one thread of work for you?
I don’t think I do – they each have specific meanings that are equally important to me. They are reflective of different places, feelings and experiences and I suppose I value them all.
I most certainly have songs which fall into the more traditional ‘pop’ category (and I really love pop), but I don’t think I would say that I like them more.
You’re going to be touring the ‘Mirores’ album first in Wales, what have you got planned as far as its presentation is concerned and will you be taking it further afield?
I’ve recently picked up the bass again – I hadn’t played it since I was a member of GENIE QUEEN a long time ago – so that will make an appearance. Andy McCluskey bought this bass for me (as he managed the band at the time) and so the whole process of learning to play it again has been quite an emotional experience… probably realising that I’m not 19 anymore! I will most certainly be travelling across the border and further afield later in the year so I’m very much looking forward to that.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its grateful thanks to ANI GLASS
Special thanks to Bill Cummings at Sound & Vision PR
As highly respected veterans with a career of over four decades and still able to fill concert theatres around the world, OMD have used their position and earned a fine reputation for providing opportunities to fledging electronic pop acts to shine in front of a sympathetic audience.
The latest beneficiary has been the Danish synthpop couple SOFTWAVE who were accorded the honour of opening for OMD in Oslo, Stockholm, Malmo and Copenhagen during the Scandinavian leg of their 2020 ‘Souvenir’ greatest hits tour.
A keen OMD fan from Germany, Anja Minnemann went to all four of these gigs and observed: “It was amazing to watch SOFTWAVE’s performances. They gave a very strong performance every time I saw them and they grew in confidence so much from the first gig too the last gig! When they performed in their own country Denmark, you would have thought they were the main event!”
Unlike Sweden and Norway, Denmark has not been known for a tradition in electronic pop, but maybe there was never been a group worthy enough in the past to lead and inspire? SOFTWAVE’s album ‘Game On’ featuring songs included in the live set like ‘Galaxy Of Stars’ and ‘Something Is Missing’ has been one of the best debuts to have emerged from the Nordic region in the last few years.
Without doubt, the pair have certainly been the most promising synthpop act from Denmark since TIGER BABY whose last album ‘Open Windows Open Hills’ came out in 2011. “The Scandinavian people are always a bit cool but Catrine and Jerry warmed them up massively” said Anja, “Her voice was clear and she had so much power in it. It seems she can’t stand still, the rhythm was her cardio. Jerry was the quiet guy behind her, dressed up in a PacMan suit ?”
“They captivated the crowd and got them involved with chanting ‘OMD’” she added, “both the band and crowd were interacting with each other, which was an amazing feeling for both. One of the things I’ll always remember is, when the stage was dark and Catrine come onto it opening her arms and her ‘wings’ had lights on and she glowed in the dark, she looked like a massive butterfly. The reaction from the crowd was awesome! Songs like ‘No Need To Hide’ stay in your mind for a very long time”.
Enthusiastic UK-based Dutch OMD fan Marilyn Wilson remembered: “I first heard about SOFTWAVE in 2018 when Chi from ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK told me that both Catrine and I were going to be on the same 80s Throwback Floating Festival cruise and that we should meet each other. The ship was rather big and we were never in the same location, so that never happened unfortunately. I did follow Softwave on Facebook after I came back home from the cruise and really liked what I heard.”
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK have often remarked how SOFTWAVE sound like Celine Dion fronting ERASURE and certainly the latter’s instrumental palette is a similarity that many have referenced.
“The sounds and melodies that Jerry uses remind me a bit of Vince Clarke’s work, and Vince is one of my musical heroes” Marilyn said, “Catrine’s voice is beautiful and powerful and compliments the synths wonderfully! I was so excited when I heard that SOFTWAVE were going to support OMD in Scandinavia, and their four performances certainly didn’t disappoint!”
With Catrine as SOFTWAVE’s vivacious front woman, she garnered the majority of the attention but she worked hard on her performance to maintain it, as the measure for support acts is not how many people are watching at the start of the set, but how many still remain at the end.
“Catrine is a natural on stage and presented all songs with lots of flair and humour” added Marilyn, “She was energetic, confident, interacted a lot with the crowd and managed to get lots of people, who had never heard the music before, to dance throughout the performance! That’s why it didn’t surprise me much when people queued up to meet the band after the gig. Both Catrine and Jerry also happen to be the loveliest friendliest people you could ever meet! My favourite song on the setlist was ‘Something Is Missing’. It’s so catchy I had in my head for days after the gigs.”
Seeing SOFTWAVE perform in Oslo and Stockholm, American music journalist and future music enthusiast Mary L Chang could not help but be impressed. “It’s a tall order, opening for an established band like OMD who have very devoted fans. From the very first song, the aplomb of Catrine Christensen set the stage for a spellbinding and energetic set. Whether in their Pac-Man-themed jackets or in Christensen’s case, lit up with a blue LED cape, SOFTWAVE gave an engaging, unforgettable performance.”
After the misstep of choosing the admittedly low maintenance LOVERS ELECTRIC to support on their comeback tour in 2007, OMD played it safe with the dependable CHINA CRISIS in 2008. However, they then took a greater interest in their special guests and a run of excellent up-and-coming synth acts have since been chosen for the coveted opening slot. Among those acts touring with OMD since 2010 have been VILLA NAH, MIRRORS, VILE ELECTRODES, METROLAND and TINY MAGNETIC PETS.
In a strange coincidence of synchronicity, all five of these acts had been featured on ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK previously and now SOFTWAVE were eagerly following in their footsteps as the sixth.
Catrine Christensen and Jerry Olsen spoke to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK about their tour with OMD and what the future holds for SOFTWAVE following their successful four date Scandinavian run…
How did you receive the news that you would be opening for OMD?
Catrine: By e-mail. It was an ordinary day. I checked my inbox and there it was! We thought they would never answer – an email was received from OMD’s manager saying: “The band has agreed”.
Later we were told by Andy McCluskey himself in Oslo that we were personally chosen by OMD. It was a great start to begin the tour – we felt SO happy, they were really kind to us during the whole tour. We actually felt like we came closer for each place we played with them. And now I miss them and the touring life. I want more ?
So how was preparing for a four date touring different from a one-off show for you?
Catrine: OMG! Haha! As this was our biggest opportunity ever, I had to prepare more than I’m used to.
To our biggest surprise, preparing our show wasn’t the toughest. It’s no secret that I’m a perfectionist when it comes to planning things.
Every single detail was double checked several times, for example planning transport, flight, train, cruise, hotels and not to forget all the new contacts we had become from each venue promoters, production managers, bookers etc.
Jerry: It was all so big and new to us. So of course, we were both very frustrated in the beginning, because we knew this was big and it meant so much to us that we wouldn’t fail. We wanted to make a great impression on OMD and the audience to show them that this tour wasn’t just another show to us – but the biggest four shows we have ever done…
Catrine: …and maybe the door to future success – a dream would finally come true. We couldn’t be more happy – and GOD I so much wish for more of this to happen! Even though preparing was tough! But I believe everything new is difficult. We could easily do it again as we now know how it all works.
Were there any interesting dilemmas with choosing songs to perform for a 30 minute slot?
Catrine: Yes, sure. 30 minutes isn’t a whole album, so we had to remove some songs. What we didn’t expect was that we had to add an old song because Vega, the venue in Copenhagen decided to promote us by using the ‘On & On & On’ music video. So we chose to add that one too, replacing ‘Human Beings’.
How were rehearsals going, did you have a particular process? Voice exercises, run throughs etc??
Jerry: We did rehearsals one month before the first show and each day during the tour, even during the cruise to Oslo and at hotels.
Catrine: I did voice exercises each day for one month up to the first show, but that’s not more than I’m used to before a show.
I tried to keep my throat warm and healthy, it’s like going in a fitness centre, not before one month of training you can feel a difference. I drank tea each day up to and during the tour. I was very afraid of getting sick and not being able to sing. But I didn’t ?
You finally had a CD of ‘Game On’ available for sale…
Catrine: Yeah. We were not supposed to. But after receiving a lot of requests, we decided to produce some. Luckily we received support from DPA and KODA’s Cultural Funds, or else we couldn’t afford it. One month before the tour, we decided to release the CD together with the announcement of the 100 new copies of the ‘Game On’ vinyl, a “tour edition” in lime colour. Surprisingly we received many CD pre-orders, and I had to arrange all these to be shipped safely to the fans, all signed during the preparations for the tour. WOW! That was stressful. But after that, we could finally concentrate on the tour.
Jerry: The CDs sold well and 50% of them are gone already. So we’re very glad about our decision. But the vinyl sale went even better!
Your choice of stage clothes made a strong visual impact?
Catrine: Yes, it did. Every single detail was carefully chosen. The most popular visual impact was definitely the blue LED-wings I was wearing during ‘Guardian Angel’. Visuals and stage clothes are almost as important as the music when performing live. We want the audience to experience the music in another way than when listening at home.
As we don’t go on compromise on the quality of the music production, we feel the same live. To show that, we had to “show” it in a visual way.
Jerry: We both wore the PacMan suits as it’s related to the ‘Game On’ album. It’s not a permanent look though.
Catrine: Regarding the shows we did during the tour with OMD, it was my idea to spice up the show with a star, LED wings and my clothes which I changed a little at each show, but it still had the same main look. During all our shows, I was always wearing my wave-earring and wave-makeup. As something new, I added a Greek goddess hair-bracelet which I bought together with my Greek family in Athens. After the tour I found out that many people noticed these small details – so that made me very happy. It was all worth it ?
ATTENTION!Watch this video to have a closer look behind-the-scenes and to see how much we enjoyed touring with Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark.Interview by ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK "On Tour With SOFTWAVE":https://www.electricityclub.co.uk/on-tour-with-softwave/We are so pleased to have so many lovely people around us to support us during the whole tour experience ❤ THANK YOU ❤Playlist by OMD: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3Pkycy3mykGmoiT3EVSpvy?si=vVCDmE6yRWmmkyzrNy01SwWatch FULL live show (VEGA): https://youtu.be/sg8FJ37vaSc
Posted by SoftWave on Wednesday, February 26, 2020
How was the first night in Oslo?
Catrine: As you say “the first night”. We didn’t know what to expect and what people would think of our show. Therefore we were both very excited and nervous at the same time. A strange but also an incredibly good feeling. (Watch behind-the-scenes video ?
We weren’t sure how much we could ask or if we were allowed to meet the band and talk with them backstage. So we kind of just followed the flow and suddenly we met Andy McCluskey and had a short chat.
Afterwards we said hi to Paul Humphreys and the other band members. We also had the pleasure of seeing their soundcheck along with the VIPs. They looked very curiously at us, as we were just standing there among the hardcore OMD fans, I had this feeling that they wasn’t used to that.
Jerry: After the show, something surprising happened, first of all we sold a lot of merchandise and many came to us to give us feedback. Some gave us high-five and one man told us that what we did was amazing. He said he had never seen an OMD support band like that before. He also added that Norwegians are normally very shy in nature, but we made them clap, jump, shout and smile ?
Even a video from an audience was uploaded to YouTube afterwards – and that’s a good sign…
You actually had some German and Dutch OMD fans there to cheer for you?
Catrine: Yes we had, Anja and Marilyn. They were amazingly supportive during the whole tour. We really needed them, so their presence meant a lot to us. At least one person to cheer you up is precious – but we were lucky to have at least two during all four places <3
The tour wouldn’t have been the same without them. But we must say that they maybe would not have known about us if it wasn’t because of our huge fan Shaun who couldn’t be there and told Anja to keep an eye on us.
What was the overall reaction in Oslo?
Jerry: It was impressive. They were all very supportive and cheered us up. We had so much great feedback. If this wasn’t the case, I’m afraid it would maybe have made me nervous for the other shows.
Catrine: We were told by Andy that they would come and see our show. So we were very excited to hear their feedback afterwards.
Then onto Stockholm, did the audience here differ?
Catrine: There were unbelievably so many photos taken here, it sure was the most beautiful venue we have ever played at. We would love to go there again. Even the backstage area and service was amazing. Sadly there wasn’t much videos posted by the audience. But we were lucky to find one:
Softwave – Something is Missing. ??
Posted by Tom Svendsen on Sunday, February 9, 2020
How was your relationship developing with the road crew?
Jerry: Step by step. We ended up having a very good time together, it felt like a small family. We really miss them.
Did you get to chat much to Andy McCluskey and Paul Humphreys during the tour?
Catrine: Yes. But it wasn’t easy. We were afraid it would never happen. So we stayed humble and didn’t want to demand them to have a chat with us, so we shared our wish with their manager and made it up to them to decide when and if they wanted to chat with us.
That was a good decision as we experienced they opened up more after each show. During the last show in Copenhagen, they came to us many times for a chat and we even had photos with them backstage. We also gave them and the rest of the band a copy of the lime vinyl including a personal message and signed of course ?
They seemed very happy about the gift and they also gave us great feedback on our performance, actually many times. They also said they were honoured to have us with them on tour – and we didn’t know what to say because we were the ones to be honoured to be chosen.
Right before we went to the stage in Vega, Andy told me that he was amazed by my way of performing. He said something like this: “…without looking nervous at all you just went on stage like a queen saying here I am…”. That really was a huge compliment. I hope to chat more with them, we had such a great time and even better, the same sort of humour.
Jerry: I had a nice producer-conversation with Paul before we entered the stage in Copenhagen.
We mentioned that we’re working on a cover version of ‘Souvenir’ which caught his attention right away. He asked me to send him a demo to his private email.
Malmö was heading towards home, were you getting into your stride by now?
Jerry: Yeah… we were definitely getting the hang of the touring life. It was a different place but everything remained the same. Every place, the schedule is exactly the same. That was actually a good thing because it made us relax more.
But you were most nervous for the Copenhagen show?
Jerry: Yes. Danes are not easily satisfied. They are often critical about new bands like us and can be very judging. But surprisingly, we were completely wrong about that.
Catrine: We had a huge queue at the merchandise stand. We were three people to help sell our stuff and it was lovely to have a good friend helping us out during the day. Copenhagen was a great success and a perfect end to the tour!
Over the four shows, which songs appeared to be getting the best reaction?
Jerry: Hard to say. Ask OMD’s fans ?
But if I should mention one song – it must be ‘No Need To Hide’ as it was the last one on the setlist and worked as the perfect transition for OMD to take over the stage after us.
How were merch sales and the online reaction with regards social media and post-show steams?
Catrine: Just amazing. We couldn’t have asked for more. We sold way more than expected. Our lovely followers on social media kindly shared our posts and even OMD fans commented and uploaded pictures and videos. It was a great help to me, as I’m responsible for the promotional part. Only at Vega, we had our own film-production crew to film our show and a photographer. So we especially want to thank all people who took pictures and filmed our show in Oslo, Stockholm and Malmo and would like everyone to send us their files to [email protected]
What advice would you give to artists to be able to get into the position you managed to find yourself in?
Catrine: Be prepared, be yourself, produce great music and show you are proud of it. Don’t be afraid to move forward – just believe you will succeed and you will.
What are SOFTWAVE’s future plans, hopes and fears?
Jerry: We want to tour more for sure! It’s very sad that the tour with OMD is over already, and we fear a tour like this will never happen to us again. We feel very lucky and honoured to have experienced this. It feels like we have reached the top. So of course it’s always frustrating to think of the future after having such a great time in “tour-heaven”.
Catrine: It’s like having an “after-tour-effect”, some artists feel depressed. I have been told it’s normal, but I don’t feel that yet. I’m still very happy, but I have thought “So what will happen now?”... I believe the worst thing is to have to wait and stay patient.
As we didn’t know what would happen after this tour, we are still available for bookings during the whole summer. We hope to play in Germany and bigger venues and festivals in Denmark. But we’re not in a hurry as we’re planning a new album and another exciting side-project ?
But there will be a full professional live show recording of the Copenhagen Vega show online soon.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to SOFTWAVE
Special thanks to Anja Minnemann, Marilyn Wilson and Mary L Chang
Jah Wobble was just 18 years old when he co-founded PUBLIC IMAGE LIMITED with John Lydon, Keith Levene and Jim Walker. Real name John Wardle, he was given his nickname and first bass guitar by a drunken Sid Vicious. After two albums ‘First Issue’ and ‘Metal Box’, he left the band in 1980.
Despite this, his creative mind and distinctive hypnotic bass style was now freed to work with a diverse range of artists and producers over the next four decades.
These included François Kevorkian, The Edge, Brian Eno, Winston Tong, Alan Rankine, Brett Wickens, Bill Sharpe, Baaba Maal, Chaka Demus, Dolores O’Riordan, Sinead O’Connor, Andrew Weatherall and Bill Laswell, as well as groups like ONE DOVE and THE ORB.
Forming THE HUMAN CONDITION who released two live cassettes before disbanding, he headed to Cologne to collaborate with CAN members Holger Czukay and Jaki Liebezeit, the material eventually coming out as the ‘Full Circle’ album in late 1982 which included the minor European hit ‘How Much Are They?’. ‘The ‘Snake Charmer’ EP also featuring the trio followed in 1983.
Using his German experience, he showcased his eclectic tastes on the single ‘Invaders Of The Heart’, with Wardle reworking his bassline for PUBLIC IMAGE LIMITED’s ‘Death Disco’ into a mutant post-punk dub excursion also featuring electronics and ethnic tape samples.
His album ‘Rising Above Bedlam’ was nominated for the 1992 Mercury Music Prize and although he didn’t win, he had played on one track from the eventual winner ‘Screamadelica’ by PRIMAL SCREAM. Outside of music, he obtained a BA in Music and Philosophy, while also acting as a book reviewer for the Independent on Sunday and The Times.
A strong advocate of World Music, he has a brand new album entitled ‘Ocean Blue Waves’ out this Spring with THE INVADERS OF THE HEART. Big John chatted about his ethos and his career as one of the UK’s most influential and distinctive bass players.
Your new album ‘Ocean Blue Waves’ has a very cosmic vibe about it, what inspired its concept?
There wasn’t really a concept… sometimes with some records, there’s a bit of a backstory but in this case, it was “let’s go in the studio” and play naturally. The only number that had been pre-written was ‘Take My Hand’ which is a bit of a rock anthem.
Do you compose by manner of band jamming?
It’s our natural style, I would give them say a descending change and suggest a few things, but it would be the band doing their thing. My drummer Marc Layton-Bennet came a decade ago via my old percussionist Neville Murray who’s retired now, he was the guy who would always suggest musicians for me.
I met George King, my keyboard player through an engineer I worked with and my guitarist Martin Chung was a good mate of Marc’s, although I actually saw him on a video for a singer who he was playing with about six years ago. I tend to stick with the same musicians, like Neville was on the firm with me for like 30 years!
On ‘Ocean Blue Waves’, there’s a mix of instrumentals and songs like ‘Take My Hand’, ‘A fly Away’ and ‘Minds Float Free’, how do you decide when a track needs vocals?
You think “what does this track need?” and sometimes it sounds like a backing track and you can hear a saxophone on it or a topline of a vocal. I remember I had these dubby psychedelic tracks that weren’t really songs or an instrumentals, I was like “what is it?” but I then got thinking about William Blake, so it became this spoken word album.
Do lyrics come naturally to you?
Yeah, I’ve written a lot over the years, maybe a quarter of the live set has me singing and now I have to be careful and look after my voice properly which at 61 is a new one on me! I rented a room at an art studio in Manchester just to write some poetry ‘Odds & Sods Of Epilogues’ and an autobiography ‘Memoirs Of A Geezer’.
One highlight is the title ‘Ocean Blue Waves’ track which has a most amazing synth solo…
I came up with this b-line in Tokyo and it was driving me mad, we played it at a gig there and it was quite modal, not really much like the track as you hear it now.
I really wanted to use that b-line for something and the boys come up with something very different. It’s better live now and it’s very dreamy, we generally start the set with it.
But it’s so nice, you don’t really want to go into the first change or end the number, because it’s so nice and hypnotic!
We’re always pushed for time at the end of the night as we do quite a long set, so you have to do the change, you want that synth solo to go on and on and on! It’s got a lovely sound, it’s a bit softer and less minor key.
It all seems a far cry from PUBLIC IMAGE LIMITED, how do you look back on that time?
I loved it because I was just starting out, that youthful enthusiasm of an amateur, I’d like to think it’s something I’ve still got. I always like to quote a Suzuki line: “In the beginner’s mind, there’s many possibilities, in the experts there’s few…”, so I try to keep a naïve approach and play without thinking.
There’s certain basslines like PiL’s ‘Poptones’ that are so perfect and circular somehow… actually I went back to playing Fender Precision bass after using Magnum for years after we played in America and did an album with Bill Laswell. Fender Precision makes me play a little bit more chromatically, these chromatic runs somehow sound cleaner. It works well with the old stuff even though it’s evolving and the new stuff as well.
What influenced your playing style?
Dub reggae as a big thing, I loved soul, funk and disco. I liked the idea of patterns so very early on. I got my own modal sound going, because I would make patterns based around the dots of the fret. I couldn’t count, I took a little while to learn the notes so I went by the dots on the fretboard…. I made shapes and patterns so that naturally led to a certain kind of block unit. A lot of the stuff I do is A minor, B minor, they’re quite modal and fixed. When I play with a Fender, you get a flowing quality, it’s quite musical in its own way I think.
Did you eventually venture down the path of learning more formal musical theory?
No, not at all and it was probably just as well. I didn’t get conditioned and you become educated because I worked with some really great musicians over the years like Jaki Liebezeit and Holger Czukay, and I hung on their every word.
I thought very hard about music and how the bass should work and sound like in conjunction with the drums or keyboards. I think I ended up thinking in quite an abstract way. I didn’t have any knowledge of Bach or tonality so you had your own kind of approach.
The sonic thing was a big part of it because my generation were in the studio playing electric instruments, so the actual sound was as important as the phrasing or the playing.
After PUBLIC IMAGE LIMITED, you were suddenly off to Germany to record the ‘How Much Are They?’ EP with Holger Czukay and Jaki Liebezeit, how did that come about?
This was through a mate of mine, Angus MacKinnon who interviewed me in regard to ‘Metal Box’. We became friends and he knew I wasn’t happy in PiL, so he suggested I play with CAN. Holger happened to be in London with his manager Hildegard and we got introduced. I got on with him and we went to a studio to have a little try out. I wrote the basic parts for ‘How Much Are They?’, the b-line, the drum beat, the simple string parts and the triad chords over the bass so I was developing this style that was quite catchy.
What happened next?
Holger took it back to Cologne to edit it quite radically and it was mixed by Mark Lusardi, a very good engineer. It became the first track of an EP we did called ‘How Much Are They?’; it went so well that they flew me over to Germany and we recorded stuff like ‘Trench Warfare’ and other stuff. That’s when I met Jaki for the first time, he’s probably the most special person I’ve ever met… as a musician he’s a master player.
Had you been a CAN fan?
Yeah, a bit! I liked the groove stuff, I wasn’t mad on everything but it was stuff the stuff where Jaki got his thing going on those earlier albums that I liked.
How did you find playing along to drum machines?
I like drum machines, they’re in time and it meant you could play over and over and over. I’d been in squats and when PiL started, it was terrible the way the money was sorted out, but I was able to get a Wasp synthesizer, a little analogue Roland rhythm box, a Godwin String Concert keyboard, a WEM Copicat and then later a TASCAM multi-track cassette portastudio. So I was very idiosyncratic and quite obsessive. so I would sit there for hours with a drum machine going. It was fantastic because that really helps your timing, you become machine-like yourself really.
Holger Czukay was quite unique in that he was a bass player who was not really interested in playing bass anymore, but was becoming more of a sound painter, is that how you saw it?
Yes, I did. He was a producer… there had been clashes in CAN over the direction of the band but Holger was the guy who would be the architect and would get busy with the razor blade, editing after they’d recorded. So that’s how it was, he really liked my playing and thought it was fantastic, saying “I couldn’t do what you do!” and I was like “REALLY?”
Jaki really liked it too and I was really surprised but delighted. Holger said “It’s like Miles Davis, you play one note and everyone knows it’s you”. It strange, I still don’t know why or how or what, but I do have my own sound, I know I have my own sound. Jaki had his own unique sound too…
Jaki was quite fascinating in that he could play fast, but it would be quite ambient…
He was so simpatico over the space he was playing in, and he could play fast but there was a totality to the sound. Some of that was down to the fact that they only used a pair of overhead mics, it sounded so good in the studio. They didn’t have a dividing wall between the control room and the recording room at Inner Space Studio in Cologne.
It was one space, an old cinema so everything sounded great there. I learnt a lot and developed that over the years, not trying too hard with mics so that you get a total sound with a certain spacious quality within the music, even when it’s uptempo.
The ‘How Much Are They?’ EP was dedicated to Ian Curtis?
That’s right, his death was a shocker, he was a special person and it seemed like a nice thing to do, it was such a shame for him to die so young…
On the ‘Snake Charmer’ EP, you worked with the-then emerging François Kervorkian who brought a Linn Drum Computer to the studio, that must have been a revelation?
Yeah, but I wasn’t mad on the Linn Drum sound with its big toms and rock kick thing. I always preferred those Roland drum machines, but the Linn was still really good, it was a revelation.
François was good to work with because he was from a dance background so he was really into making records dancey and tuned into the dancefloor.
François brought it in and there’s the famous story where Jaki became very cross with the Linn Drum and accused it of being slightly out of time! We thought that was impossible as it was a machine, but Jaki insisted it was out of time. So when we timed it back, it was! It was so incredible, like 4 BPM out, losing 3 BPM over the course of a minute but he was correct! He got really angry and played this cross-rhythm, then suddenly, there was this puff of smoke come out the back and the Linn fused! We couldn’t get it working again! So Jaki had out-synched this Linn Drum, that was the power of his mind!
‘Snake Charmer’ also featured The Edge from U2, how was it to work with him?
It was very easy, he was a very nice guy… when he arrived in the studio, I was having this massive row with François, I saw him and quickly said “Hallo, I know who you are, I can’t wait to talk to you but I’ve got to finish this f*cking argument! Nice to meet you!”*laughs*
The Edge was a nice bloke, François knew him because he’d remixed a couple of U2 tracks. He made a lovely sound on ‘Hold On To Your Dreams’, just beautiful.
You took a break from music but came back?
Sometimes I got lazy but I stopped drinking in 1986 and I was halfway through an album called ‘Psalms’, so the final half was done very newly sober. Then I started working as a courier and applied to work for the Post Office and London Underground. By 1987, I started working for the Underground, I chose them over the Post Office. I still miss for the Underground, I loved it.
I was listening to a lot of music, then Neville Murray knocked on my door and asked when we were going back on the road? So we put THE INVADERS OF THE HEART Mk2 together and we started again. We were working with a guy called David Harrow and I started being active in music again. If there was a break, it was only for about two months!
You worked with the late Andrew Weatherall on several occasions including on ‘There Goes The Cure’ from ‘Morning Dove White’ by ONE DOVE, what was it like to work with him?
I was living in South London and that rave scene was going when I walked to Embankment. I would see all these clubbers in Villiers Street, queuing to get into this after-hours club and thought “this is interesting”, this would have been around the beginnings of acid jazz. I started getting some work in that scene with those kind of DJs, Andy gave me a kick start coming back into the business.
You were working with Brian Eno for 1995’s ‘Spinner’, can you remember what the creative dynamic was like between you?
Brian Eno was a bit half and half… for one track, he said something like “Oh, I want you to treat it like a moreish maiden” and I was like “Stop being funny, stop playing games! DO YOU LIKE IT?” *laughs*
I do like Brian, you might get the impression I don’t, but I do! It was a good thing for me to do and he’s a kind man.
I’m touring with his brother Roger as part of THE ORB live band. He’s into all those minimalist Harold Budd and Debussy piano pieces and I think he’s been an influence on Brian. It all came about via Derek Jarman, he approached me and because he’d done ‘Jubilee’, he knew Brian.
I’d done these little piano pieces like Shostakovich, clusters of notes which we turned into tracks. There wasn’t a lot of money so we couldn’t use lots of players or have a big studio, we did it in my little home studio in Bethnal Green using our imagination. Some records don’t last as well as others but I think ‘Spinner’ has lasted really well, it’s really got something special about it and stood the test of time.
If you listen to ‘Spinner’ now, it’s like the precursor to some of the dance music productions over the next two years with the effects on the drums and stuff, because up until then, having effects on drums was seen as quite bad taste, it didn’t work.
You’d put phasing on guitar but you’d have to be careful about drums. But somehow, it kind of worked with that phasing.
I used to do a lot of walking along the Lea Valley in London, and you’d be walking past old soap factories up the River Lea and see semi-rural marshlands, so it would get very trippy.
So that would influence the music, doing things in 7/4 time with a real haunting vibe. It was like walking music because each time we’d finish a track, we’d use it to walk to. There was something about the whole do-it-yourself concept, the way it was recorded on computer and how we used our expertise to record loops of Jaki and stuff.
What would you say have been your career highlights?
There’s magical moments in my life and not just with music. One of my highlights was walking across the grounds of Birkbeck College, London University on the first day of term when I went there, that was wow! And there was driving the tube train, westbound from Stratford to Mile End for the first time on this really fast section of line… I was just thinking “I AM DRIVING A F*CKING TUBE TRAIN, HOW D’YA LIKE THAT!”*laughs*
It’s that sense that you have sometimes of observing yourself, it’s quite detached… like a big mind thing looking at you, you get that in life and you get it on stage often. It’s like when people talk about an out-of-body experience, but you’re in control, you’re the observed and the observer at the same time.
I’ve had so many moments like that, like the first gig in sobriety with Neville in Switzerland, I woke up in a pension hotel overlooking the square with the smell of croissants and coffee wafting up in the morning in spring… I was like “I’m sober and I’m back on the road”, it was magical!
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Jah Wobble
Uwe Schütte is a noted KRAFTWERK scholar who curated the first ever conference on the iconic German pioneers in 2015.
A Reader in German at Aston University in Birmingham where he teaches and researches contemporary Austrian and German literature, the writer W.G. Sebald and German popular music, in 2017 he compiled ‘German Pop Music: A Companion’, a 270 page book discussing the post-war musical landscape of the country and its influence internationally.
Published as part of the Penguin on Design series, his new book ‘KRAFTWERK Future Music from Germany’ offers a German perspective of die Kling Klang Quartett in English.
This is the story of Die Mensch-Maschinen as a cultural phenomenon told crucially from a local point of view. Of particular significance in Schütte’s premise is the context of how after the Second World War, Germany was divided in two with the atrocities it committed very much in the minds of its population. Frankfurt and Nuremberg were occupied by the US Army while in Der Rheinland, Düsseldorf itself had the presence of the British Army; it was within this context that KRAFTWERK emerged.
Schütte discusses how since the Second World War, young Germans are educated about the Nazi atrocities and The Holocaust with the emphasis on peace and prevention of further conflict. Compare that to the British attitude to recent history where heroism and bravado are celebrated with war monuments, where Oswald Mosley, the leader of the British Union of Fascists is considered a flawed man of the people (see the ‘Not The Nine O’Clock News’ song sketch from 1980), Edward VIII is seen as the king who gave up his throne for love rather than as the spying Nazi sympathiser he actually was and British Empire inventions such as the concentration camp are conveniently glossed over.
With a desire for a new Germanic cultural identity ignoring Trans-Atlantic rock traditions, KRAFTWERK fused sound and technology, graphic design and performance, modernist Bauhaus aesthetics and Rhineland industrialisation to conceive a Gesamtkunstwerk or “synthesis of the arts” that was to change the course of modern music.
Düsseldorf is just half an hour to Belgium and The Netherlands, and an hour to Paris so an accessible spirit of cultural adventure was to manifest itself in the creative minds of Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider, thanks to their location and education. ‘Autobahn’ and ‘Trans Europe Express’ were deep inside their psyche, while ‘Europe Endless’ was forward thinking despite its nostalgic romanticism and dreamt of a continent without borders that supported a vision of peace and unity.
KRAFTWERK’s role as cross-cultural ambassadors was not just restricted to Europe, as urban America in particular embraced their vision and adapted it to their own forms as they became the bridge between electronic pop and dance music, having already straddled a line between improvisation and pop.
But while KRAFTWERK had been assertive in confronting and reclaiming aspects of Germany’s past, they could be vague when looking at their country’s more immediate future. One interesting aspect is Schütte’s account of how KRAFTWERK upset the powerful anti-nuclear lobby in Germany with their ambiguous lyricism on the song ‘Radio-Activity’ when originally released in 1975. The band did not help their situation by having promotional images photographed in atomic power installations.
But in 1991, KRAFTWERK reworked the track for ‘The Mix’ to contain an explicit anti-nuclear message to “STOP RADIOACTIVITY” while also highlighting the tragedies and disasters in Chernobyl, Harrisburg, Sellafield and Hiroshima; it was then updated in 2012 to mention Fukushima as part of the ‘No Nukes’ event in Japan put together by Ryuichi Sakamoto.
The artistic tensions that have led to Ralf Hütter remaining as the sole member from the classic RFWK line-up and KRAFTWERK effectively stalling as a creative force musically are given a positive slant by Schütte, despite only one album of new material appearing since 1986’s ‘Electric Café’ / ‘Techno Pop’ adventure.
A music paper once wrote about KRAFTWERK’s music “it’s good but is it rock and roll?” – well, of course it isn’t, THAT’S THE POINT! While KRAFTWERK have been less than productive on the new material front, they have continued their pursuit of modernism in the spirit of the Bauhaus movement, unifying art and technology, pushing forward innovations in 3D visuals and surround sound.
KRAFTWERK have certainly not done anything like going backwards to allow the turgid interference of drums and guitars to dominate their live sound in the way DEPECHE MODE have in their desperate attempts at validation from the predictable narrow-minded standpoint of the rock community. When Ralf Hütter was once asked by a British journalist whether KRAFTWERK songs could be played on an acoustic guitar, he gave the question the disdain it deserved and wryly replied “I play keyboards!”?
KRAFTWERK are the ultimate anti-rock icons. To that end, if they were to be inducted into The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame, it would destroy everything their cultural legacy as pioneers of electronic music has established and make them just another boring rock band.
Uwe Schütte talked about what makes ‘KRAFTWERK Future Music from Germany’ unique, as well as how he believes the band’s legacy and future will play out.
There are already books on the history of KRAFTWERK, by Pascal Bussy, Tim Barr and David Buckley, among others, why does the world need another?
Yes, the three KRAFTWERK B-boys, as I call them in my book… Well, the books might share the same topic, but are all very different. Barr’s book is outdated, Bussy’s too. Buckley’s book does not use the many available sources in German, for example. And he focuses less on the performance history aspect. It is a very good book, but written by a British person for a British reading audience. My book translates the German cultural phenomena that is KRAFTWERK for an Anglophone readership.
Your book has a focus on design and image?
That is another distinguishing feature of ‘Future Music from Germany’. I treat KRAFTWERK as a Gesamtkunstwerk, a total work of art that exceeds music and performance and also incorporates the visual dimension: from the cover designs to today’s complete audio-visual package at the 3D concerts.
As borne out by the back photo on the original German Philips release of ‘Autobahn’, KRAFTWERK had long hair but had it cut short for the concert tour. How and why did this come about?
Ralf Hütter wanted to give KRAFTWERK a more sober, cleaner image, to distance the band from received notions of how a rock band should look and sound.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK rather likes the vintage suit look of ‘Trans Europe Express’. Which image was your favourite?
I love it, too, and discuss how I first saw the poster of the band members sitting at an outdoor café in their conservative attire in the book. I found it truly odd.
How important was Emil Schult’s graphical and musical contributions to the band?
Very, very important. And much underrated. I try to put the record straight.
You make an interesting observation as to how the original German lyrics to the ‘Computerwelt’ title track are more complex and sinister in their now timely observation of how data is being used and manipulated, compared with the simplified almost nursery rhyme take in English?
Yes, it is important to me to alert English-language readers to the differences between the two languages. I listened to KRAFTWERK singing in German for almost 40 years. They were essentially the only band using my native language – as a German, I equated pop music with English lyrics.
The reissues that made up ‘Der Katalog’ boxed set were quite revisionist on many levels. Was this necessary or an enhancement of the legend in your eyes?
Very necessary, albeit not perfectly done. I discuss KRAFTWERK as an ongoing, evolving art project, and the design changes were an important update of the Gesamtkunstwerk.
There were all the stories of Wolfgang Flür being written out of ‘Der Katalog’, but of course the irony is that Wolfgang’s face was cropped onto the face of Emil Schult for the back photo on the original German Philips release of ‘Autobahn’…
Yes, nothing new there. Karl Bartos was essentially eliminated from the oeuvre, too. But, although this is a dubious move on a moral level, it is a great improvement on an artistic level: the KRAFTWERK concept is all about eliminating personal, individual factors and foregrounding man-machine qualities.
If you read between the lines though, it would appear that Wolfgang Flür hasn’t actually contributed to a KRAFTWERK recording since 1978?
True, but he was important, as was Emil Schult, in various aspects that contributed to the success of the band project. My book, however, is little concerned with gossip or the human frailties or personalities issues at stake. The other books take care if that. As an academic, my interest lies in the conceptual ideas that dominate KRAFTWERK: the notion of the man-machine, the idea of the robot as its avatar, the Gesamtkunstwerk concept and such like.
What was your take on how Karl Bartos and Wolfgang Flür approached their autobiographies?
Well, I took next to no info from Flür’s book and quoted Bartos’ a few times concerning technical and musical info, on which he is very good indeed. I definitely preferred Bartos’ book.
As far as maintaining their own parts of the KRAFTWERK legacy, Karl Bartos at least performs his KRAFTWERK co-writes alongside his new compositions live, but Wolfgang Flür peddles that rather tedious ‘Musik Soldat’ DJ set accompanied by a Powerpoint presentation. Do you agree?
To be honest, I haven’t seen either show so far. I prefer to go to KRAFTWERK concerts, to be honest. I liked the ‘Off The Record’ album, though.
Karl Bartos was KRAFTWERK’s Alan Wilder, discuss…
True. Next question.
Do you think KRAFTWERK’s refusal to collaborate with other musicians (eg Michael Jackson) has been a hindrance or help to the band?
Provided the rumour re Michael Jackson is true at all… Bowie certainly looked for cooperation, and I am pretty curious about how the music they would have made would have sounded… but ultimately it was of course the right decision to turn down all offers and stay strictly true to the concept.
How much longer do you think KRAFTWERK can continue with their 3D / graphics based show? The template for this has been in place for over 15 years now…
Hopefully still for many, many years. As soon as Hütter won’t be able to perform for health reasons, the game will be over anyway. What I am truly curious about is which, if any, precautions he has taken to ensure the KRAFTWERK project continues beyond that point. Maybe a permanent exhibition of the “musical paintings” at a museum?
What still drives Ralf? Surely he could rest on his laurels and appreciate the band’s legacy?
Florian Schneider’s departure in 2008 was the best thing that could have happened to KRAFTWERK. It gave Ralf Hütter the opportunity to start touring extensively and to take their amazing show to as many people as possible. The man-machine concept only comes alive if KRAFTWERK perform their shows on stage. Admittedly, I begin to tire of it a little, having now seen it some 15 times or more, but everyone who sees it for the first time is blown away, and rightly so!
We now live in a technological era of the virtual pop star eg HATSUNE MIKU + GORILLAZ… can you see a time when Ralf and co “retire” and send robots out on tour instead of them?
No, not really. Though I would go and see it, for “professional reasons”, as it were, it would not really interest me.
KRAFTWERK were left behind musically and technologically a long time ago. Is there anything you can see the band doing to help reclaim their crown in this era or has that time come and gone now?
This question excludes the crucial and decisive visual aspect. KRAFTWERK are still at the forefront of music: There is hardly a better electronic music concert experience around than their 3D audio-visual package with the full wave-field synthesis sound system. I went to see MODEL 500 recently in Berlin. They are proof that Detroit techno is well past its prime. And a cheap KRAFTWERK performance imitation.
If KRAFTWERK did release an album, what concepts could they possibly use in it? There was a rumour a few years ago about a bio-fuels theme…
Ah, interesting, I hadn’t heard that rumour. I speculate about themes such as AI, genetic manipulation and other post-humanist ideas that would fit with the robot and man-machine concept. But all of this is idle speculation. What I hope for, though, is another EP in the vein of ‘Expo 2000’… Or some officially approved remixes, like the ones by HOT CHIP.
You have this theory in the book that there will never be a new KRAFTWERK album because of the magic number 8?
And it is very convincing, don’t you agree? And what is even more convincing is the fact that Hütter, even if aided by Fritz Hilpert, would not be able to pull off the feat of making an album full of exciting new tracks that would exceed, or even match the existing ones.
Why do you think Ralf appears to distance himself from the first three KRAFTWERK albums so much, to the point where he sees ‘Autobahn’ as a “year zero” for the band?
Yes, of course, it is part of the myth, though Florian Schneider was no different.
What are your opinions on RAMMSTEIN’s version of ‘The Model’?
Don’t get me started. I hate it, and I hate RAMMSTEIN, not because of their sh*tty music, which I am not bothered about, but because their records and videos promote nationalist political thinking in Germany. The band purposely encourages right-wing agendas.
I am not fussed about people abroad liking the music, or even thinking that the Teutonic clichés these millionaire musicians peddle have anything to do with Germany or German culture.
KRAFTWERK have once again been overlooked at not inducted into The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Do you have an opinion on this?
Yes, I do: It is a disgrace.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Uwe Schütte
Special thanks to Matt Hutchinson at Penguin Music
While CHINA CRISIS scored four Top 20 hits during their Virgin Records imperial phase, the instrumentally strong Kirkby duo possessed a subtle atmospheric side.
On their B-sides, and usually the ones from singles that weren’t hits, there were some exquisite instrumentals like ‘Dockland’, ‘Watching Over Burning Fields’, ’96.8’ and ‘Little Italy’. These demonstrated Gary Daly and Eddie Lundon’s love of Brian Eno and his esoteric ambient work in particular, both solo and in collaboration with the likes of David Bowie and Harold Budd.
Meanwhile the more guitar-based ‘Performing Seals’ and ‘Forever I & I’ pointed towards Vini Reilly, best known as the man behind Factory Records act THE DURUTTI COLUMN. But as CHINA CRISIS developed and adopted more conventional colours, expanding to include Kevin Wilkinson (drums), Gazza Johnson (bass) and Brian McNeil (keyboards) in the line-up from ‘Flaunt The Imperfection’ onwards, their artier approach with regards instrumentals took a back seat.
Most of these notable instrumentals were the work of Gary Daly, the CHINA CRISIS synth man and lead vocalist. And now, he has released a solo collection of 23 such tracks entitled ‘Luna Landings’ in a nod to Eno’s own ‘Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks’. Comprising of archive recordings made between 1981 to 1987, it is a beautiful work that is a worthy addition to the tradition. These tracks had all been composed with CHINA CRISIS in mind, so are very much part of the band’s history, albeit only revealed decades later.
So in a new interview with Gary Daly, it made sense to discuss the creative dynamic within CHINA CRISIS, as well as their earlier synthfluences like JAPAN, YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA, OMD and THE HUMAN LEAGUE…
You started off as being more of a bass player in CHINA CRISIS, so how did the drift into keyboards begin?
Believe it or not, Eddie’s mum, Katie, had a catalogue at the time circa 1980 / 81 which could be found in most working class homes. So basically you could order and pay on a weekly basis, all manner of goods, everything from clothing to children’s toys, gardening to electrical goods and wow! There it was… a Yamaha CS 10 monophonic keyboard and Katie very kindly ordered it for us.
So yeah, Eddie and myself would have delighted soooo much in being able to experiment with a synth… it did help that the CS 10 was monophonic, one key / note at a time… hahaaa! We had been listening to so much Eno / Bowie / early HUMAN LEAGUE that we knew and understood you could actually make and play bass notes / sounds on a synth. So it was never a matter of “being a bass player” and drifting into keys, Eddie and myself would have been fearless in exploring any and all instruments / machines. We’d read enough Eno song credits to realise experimentation was “the key”.
Can you remember the first electronic instrumental you liked or that made an impression?
TANGERINE DREAM and their 1975 album ‘Rubycon’, it was ‘Rubycon Part One’. A friend had this album back in the day, 1975 / 76. Everybody would loan each other’s albums, I very clearly remember Eddie lending me his copy of Bowie’s ‘Low’ album… nobody owned more than a few albums, never more then 15 / 20.
So sharing each other’s records was essential really. None of us had headphones and would improvise… most record players were sporting separate speakers so it was easy to set up a stereo headspace, on the floor, a speaker either side of your noggin. And boom! The stereo picture was complete!
Was there a particular moment when got you into more “ambient musics”?
Yes, that would be side two of Bowie’s ‘Low’ album, the mostly Instrumental side. That in turn led to me buying Eno’s ‘Before & After Science’ album, which led to me hearing Eno’s ‘Discreet Music’ album and that was a complete and utter revelation! I never knew music could be so “slow moving” and yet so completely engaging… the fact it had a diagram of how to set up a “tape loop” recording session was brilliant, it was exactly the kind of recording info I was wanting to see, read and learn from…
When you and Eddie decided to start making music together, did you start by creating instrumentals or were you songwriting from the off?
Always instrumentals, we only began writing words and singing over these little tunes because nobody else was going to do it for us… like we didn’t have a singer and we certainly didn’t consider ourselves as “singers”, but as much as we loved all our instrumental endeavours, it did feel the most natural thing in the world to start singing along… and when you are in your late teens, getting creative , there’s soooo much to sing about!
On ‘Difficult Shapes & Passive Rhythms’, you got quite into bass synth sequencing like on ‘Some People I Know To Lead Fantastic Lives’, what were you using to achieve this effect?
We mostly triggered from the Roland TR808 drum machine. We didn’t actually have a Sequencer, so we would trigger the arpeggiator on the Korg Poly 6. For bass synth sounds on ‘Difficult Shapes…’, we mostly used the Roland SH09 or the Yamaha CS10.
In hindsight, the first two singles ‘African & White’ and ‘Scream Down At Me’ are not really indicative of what CHINA CRISIS were to end up sounding like. Can you remember what your mindset may have been at the time as both tracks are very rhythmic?
TALKING HEADS… Eno’s work on their ‘Fear Of Music’ and then ‘Remain In Light’. Also people like A CERTAIN RATIO with their single ‘Shack Up’, ABC with ‘Tears Are Not Enough’ and JAPAN with ‘Quiet Life’, especially JAPAN’s ‘Quiet Life’… hearing the two songs now, ‘Scream Down At Me’ and ‘Quiet Life’, you could easily make a great “Mash Up” with those two…
While you were getting into producing possible pop songs, these gentle instrumentals like ‘Jean Walks In Fresh Fields’ and ‘Watching Over Burning Fields’ started appearing, what had been the thinking behind these?
I had always been a fan of instrumental music, everyone from Mike Oldfield to ELP. Once I’d heard Bowie’s ‘Low’ and then Eno’s albums ‘Before & After Science’, ‘Another Green World’ and then his ‘Music For Films’. That was it! I just fell in love with making “soundscapes”, I think it helped shape and define our sound, our musical horizons became a whole lot broader and we could apply atmosphere and effects to all our musical endeavours…
Your first hit ‘Christian’ is effectively a type of ambient pop and combined your two interests, what was the song inspired by?
Eddie has reminded me, ‘Christian’ was originally called ‘WW1’; I’d seen images from the First World War, the devastation of trench warfare. I would have written some words relating to what I’d seen and once we had the music written and recorded, I would have spent some time listening repeatedly, over and over and sung along any and all of the words I’d been busy writing…
The actual ‘Christian’ of the title was the name of a little boy, who was friends with a nephew of mine… I’d never heard of anyone having that name. And when recording the track in Strawberry South, Dorking with Pete Walsh producing, we had nothing happening in the middle eight. Pete asked if we had any ideas and I would have just sang “Christian” at the point where the music changes and it worked beautifully.
Was it the Korg Poly6 that gave you the keys to exploring ambient textures more effectively?
I completely love the Korg Poly 6 and in fact, got to work with one again on my ‘Gone From Here’ album. It’s such a lovely , warm , easy to use keyboard… ADSR… ATTACK, DECAY, SUSTAIN, RELEASE … cut off frequency, portamento. It’s everything you could want for making great synth sounds and always with an echo / effects unit… always!
Was there ever an example of one of these ambient experiments morphing into a CHINA CRISIS song?
All the time, Eddie and myself worked separately and together. This always led to us being impressed and inspired by what the other was doing. If Eddie was busy playing guitar, then that meant I could get involved with his sound, messing with our effect units, especially our Roland Chorus Echo unit and sorting the actual recording, using the TEAC 144 and later the TASCAM 244.
Eddie would do likewise when I was busy on the synths, this helped with our recording experiences once in the studio. It was like we was in training for when there would be a lot of people involved in our records being made, like we was learning to “produce”.
‘Dockland’ is one of the tracks that many fans cite as being one of the best CHINA CRISIS instrumentals, it has this fabulous widescreen feel…
It’s completely Eno, deffo his ‘Music For Films’. It’s almost like you could include it on that album and I doubt very much anyone would bat an eye lid! *laughs*
Even when CHINA CRISIS had changed direction into a more band oriented sound on ‘Flaunt The Imperfection’, there were still tracks like ’96.8’ being released as B-sides, but around the time of ‘What Price Paradise?’, you’d stopped playing keyboards in the studio to concentrate on singing and the instrumentals appeared to take a back seat?
Yeah, I am deeply sad about my absence on the keys. I was still very much writing on the keyboards and would have added my parts. But the band had been evolving, as all artists do if they are lucky enough to be given the time to. CHINA CRISIS had changed, Eddie and myself involving Brian, Gaz and Kevin in the writing which was, in it’s own way, a great thing. But it did mean I suddenly got more involved in melodies and lyrics for song ideas that were no longer just Gary and Eddie musical ideas. Some great songs, absolutely, but the “instrumentals” took a back seat, unfortunately.
So what was the spark that had you going back to this archive of instrumental work for ‘Luna Landings’?
Oh, it was always my intention to compile and release these tracks, ever since way back in the day. I would have always thought they would make a great record… maybe not for everyone, but yeah, I love these tracks as much as anything I’ve done and I would have made them thinking people would get to hear them.
There are two pieces named after your trusty Jupiter 8, could these have turned into songs?
Yes, that’s deffo how it worked, some ideas developed into songs and some didn’t, some I would show and finish with Eddie and others I didn’t. I learnt very early on to do multiple versions of the same idea, this again was Eno inspired. His ‘Music For Films’ featured a track called ‘Sparrowfall 1 / 2 / 3’ which was three mixes of the same track, this I felt was a great way of developing a musical idea… keep changing… finding new approaches. It worked great and is still something I do to this day…
Are ‘Evángelos’ and ‘Yellow Magic’ tributes respectively to VANGELIS and YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA?
Yes they are… YMO, when we first heard and saw these guys, they was off-the-scale cool and VANGELIS, his work on the ‘Blade Runner’ soundtrack is just so utterly beautiful, especially the version with some of the original dialogue… immense!
Was the ‘Luna Landings’ track ‘80’s Electro 2’ indicative of CHINA CRISIS’ uncertainty about whether to join in the Virgin finishing school of synth that was very much doing the business at the time with THE HUMAN LEAGUE, JAPAN, OMD and SMPLE MINDS?
Hahaaa oh, I don’t believe Eddie and myself ever thought we belonged to any “school” of music. We obviously were very very inspired by everyone’s work, especially early HUMAN LEAGUE / OMD… but always, we was very very singular minded and not really part of any “scene”, we just didn’t have the time or inclination… or dare I say it , the “right” look! *laughs*
There’s one called ‘Pipes Of Man Ray Times’, had this been originally part of a song suite like OMD had with ‘Joan Of Arc’?
This track was written and recorded the same week I did the ‘Black Man Ray’ demo, hence the title. This is a good example of ideas I would and wouldn’t have played to Eddie, ‘Black Man Ray’ / yes… ‘Pipes of the Man Ray Times ‘ / no… and for no other reason than I would have thought ‘Black Man Ray’, I was more pleased with the recording and could envision it becoming a CHINA CRISIS “song” which it wouldn’t have been at the time of recording the demo; ‘Black Man Ray’ would have been just another instrumental track…
CHINA CRISIS could come up with some witty if long titles like ‘King In A Catholic Style’ or ‘A Golden Handshake For Every Daughter’, did these often come after a track was composed or were they actually the inspiration?
Never the “inspiration”, the music and lyrics always came separately. All our early China songs came from little instrumentals, over which we would then sing lyric ideas, words we had collected, written in a pad, anything and everything…
There are some guitar based instrumentals which sound like cousins of ‘Forever I & I’ and recall THE DURUTTI COLUMN, how would you judge your own six string prowess?
Mostly awful… hahaaa! It’s a bit better now… but yeah, recording Eddie’s guitars gave me a bit of insight into how Vini Reilly was getting his sound. So when I had the chance to play and record some of my own guitar ideas, I was deffo inspired by Eddie’s guitar playing and Vini’s, especially his album ‘The Return of The Durutti Column’ which I played non-stop and still do.
‘Magnifique Lune’ does sound like it could have come off Brian Eno’s ‘Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks’?
It’s very much another Eno inspired track… a simple refrain, repeated, added to and then returning to the original refrain. I think this was something I would have first noticed on Eno’s ‘Discreet Music’ album, a simple pattern on repeat and the challenge is to add something without taking away from the simplicity. It was all done on the wonderful Roland Jupiter 8…
‘Shopping For Excuses’ appears to be the beginning of a more Trans-Atlantic approach that is more indicative of where you headed on ‘Flaunt The Imperfection’, had this development evolved naturally?
The funny thing is, I was deffo in a ‘Betty Blue’ soundtrack frame of mind, when writing and recording this, I can’t listen to it without thinking of that film’s soundtrack which I actually loved and played so much, I thought I must have written it… hahaaa! It most certainly has a different feel about it, which I think mainly comes from the fact it’s one of the later recorded tracks, circa ’87.
You pay tribute to the late CHINA CRISIS drummer Kevin Wilkinson on ‘Swimming With Kevin’, what was he like to work with and have as a friend?
Well, he certainly was a great friend and anyone who found themselves lucky enough to be in his company, working or otherwise, I’m sure he would say the same… I always found Kevin to be so easy to work with, I never once thought I couldn’t show him any of my ideas. I always felt he was so much more than a drummer and this is not something I’ve overthought, it’s just something you feel… I suppose “chemistry” is the word and that’s the magical part. I always knew he could only improve whatever it was I was trying to do with a track.
The title comes from a day off we had on the CHINA CRISIS ‘Tragedy & Mystery’ tour in 1983; we had a hotel with a pool and decided to go swimming. I would have written and recorded this as part of the China’s ‘Fire & Steel’ sessions, around about the time of writing and recording ‘The Gates Of Door To Door’…
The fact that this material is recorded on Portastudios gives ‘Luna Landings’ a really earthy airy quality don’t you think, despite the vintage of the recordings?
The quality of the recordings is testament to the people what made those little tape recorders and the people behind “chrome cassettes”… I did make it my business to always record to the very highest standards. I did it all the best I could. It was completely thrilling, mostly all of the time I spent recording ideas. It was a really amazing time, learning and discovering and having fun…
There are a lot of tracks on ‘Luna Landings’, but do you have a favourite?
I do absolutely love some of them… ‘Luna Bop’ is so happy sounding and delightfully light and positive while ’80’s Electro 2’ never fails to make me smile.
‘Dummkopf’ is me thinking I’m Mick McNeill from SIMPLE MINDS circa ‘New Gold Dream’. The China’s supported SIMPLE MINDS on their ‘New Gold Dream’ tour and I was blown away by the band and the sound they made which I thought came a lot from Mick’s keys. The fact he was using the JP8 just inspired me loads, I would have come home off the tour and started to record and try and find out how Mick was creating such “atmospheric” sounds. I think anyone seeing them around this time and then hearing my ‘Dummkopf’ will know exactly what I was trying to do…
Do you think you will do another ambient instrumental album in the future?
Yes, but I’m very much of a mind to do a “piano pieces” album, I mostly compose on the piano now and have been for quite a number of years. Two of my fave ambient albums are Eno’s ‘Music for Airports’ and his collaboration with Harold Budd on the album ‘The Plateaux Of Mirror’…
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its grateful thanks to Gary Daly
CHINA CRISIS 2020 UK + Ireland live dates include:
Leeds Brudenell Social Club (6th March), Dublin Opium (12th March), Listowel Mike the Pies (13th March), Castlebar Royal Theatre (14th March), Worthing The Factory Live (20th March)
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